It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:55 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:41 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:27 am
Posts: 396
I pulled a few tubes out of the Deluxe Reverb I recently acquired (seeing how I don't use tremolo nor the normal channel, and because the amp is 20 years old and the tubes are original, I figured the tubes for normal channel and for tremolo weren't as worn out, seeing how they were rarely used). Guess what I saw underneath the Fender logo?
Sovtek :lol: Every last one of them :lol: So it seems that in the 90s, Fender bought Sovtek's tubes and stamped their logo on top.

I reckon it's old news for some, but I was pretty amused when I saw this :lol:

_________________
Image
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
'93 Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:55 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Fender, and then GT, uses a variety of tube brands including Russian (Sovtek, EH, JJ), Chinese, and others. I would say that the majority come from Russia. They have even used Winged C and other top brands way back when. Neither Fender nor GT make tubes.

GT buys tubes from many sources, then tests them thoroughly. The ones that don't pass their tests are rejected, and the ones that pass get graded and labeled by GT. Many times the original labels are left on the tubes. I'm not sure what kind of testing Fender used, but GT (now owned by Fender) uses some of the best testing in the industry.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:23 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:27 am
Posts: 396
Ah, I see, thanks for the explanation :)
It just seems odd for me that they label tubes as if they made them, when in fact, they've only tested them. Basically the whole Fender and GT (both marks were on these tubes) is just a quality control thing, if I understood correctly?

_________________
Image
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
'93 Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:11 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Basically yes, quality control, and grading. They sort through the tubes for you, and insure that you get the best of the lot. Plus, you get an extended warranty with GT over other tubes. Some GT are exclusive, such as the GE "reissue".

If you get a set of GT 6L6 graded at say 5, and replace them with another set rated 5, theoretically no bias adjust is necessary. You should always check to be sure that the bias is OK and the tubes are matched.

GT, Ruby, Mesa, TAD, and many others similarly resell their own choice of tested and relabeled tubes. Back "in the day", RCA made tubes that many others relabeled, and vice-versa.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:02 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Just as OEM suppliers will build speakers to specifications of a major manufacturer the Russian tube makers will also. For example different 12AX7 preamp tubes made at the same plant can have very different design specs for different OEM orders or also for different brand names.

Some old USA tube brand names like Tung-Sol and Mullard have been bought by a Russian tube manufacturer named New Sensor Corp which makes lots of tubes branded under different names. The Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes are made somewhat close to the original USA tubes and are not exactly alike. The brand name isn't the only difference.

The aforementioned Winged "C" tubes were being made at the Svetlana plant in St. Petersburg, Russia but are now said to have been discontinued.

So even though the tubes you see may have Sovtek markings it doesn't mean it is exactly the same as a generic Sovtek brand tube with a Fender sticker on it. There can be differences beyond grading and bias matching.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:33 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
brotherdave wrote:
Just as OEM suppliers will build speakers to specifications of a major manufacturer the Russian tube makers will also. For example different 12AX7 preamp tubes made at the same plant can have very different design specs for different OEM orders or also for different brand names.

Some old USA tube brand names like Tung-Sol and Mullard have been bought by a Russian tube manufacturer named New Sensor Corp which makes lots of tubes branded under different names. The Mullard and Tung-Sol tubes are made somewhat close to the original USA tubes and are not exactly alike. The brand name isn't the only difference.

The aforementioned Winged "C" tubes were being made at the Svetlana plant in St. Petersburg, Russia but are now said to have been discontinued.

So even though the tubes you see may have Sovtek markings it doesn't mean it is exactly the same as a generic Sovtek brand tube with a Fender sticker on it. There can be differences beyond grading and bias matching.


Well said, Bro..

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:20 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
As long as the tubes continue to be built overseas we won't have to be concerned about the environmentonazis putting the kibosh to the tonequest.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:27 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: Upstate, NY
Okay, here's a legit question. When did matching become a "thing"? Because I know there was a time when no one cared. Myself included. Not saying it's good or bad. Just wondering when it came about.

_________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/casanovafrankensteinandthevoodoomachine
https://www.facebook.com/CFandtheVM

2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:47 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:27 am
Posts: 396
Yep, these are branded as GT Exclusive :) Thank you for explanations, at first I thought Fender were making their own tubes (I never really went researching that), seeing how they were branded as Fender.

Another question (as I am quite new to tubes and whatnot), does the amp have to be biased only when you change the power or rectifier tubes? Or does it have to be biased each time you change any tube? Also just how much of a change in sound are we talking about between an amp having a cold bias and "correct" and hot bias? I understand cold bias means longer tube life, but somewhat duller tone with less treble, whereas hot bias means shorter tube life and more treble?
But, objectively, what's the difference? Is it a difference between, say, an old string vs a new one or more like a difference between amp's treble EQ set at 5 vs 7?

_________________
Image
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
'93 Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:48 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
Posts: 1169
TheKingofPain wrote:
Okay, here's a legit question. When did matching become a "thing"? Because I know there was a time when no one cared. Myself included. Not saying it's good or bad. Just wondering when it came about.


In my humble opinion matching is overrated for several reasons.

First, unless the entire push-pull circuitry is balanced it will not matter whether your tubes are balance or not.

Second, companies do not use the same criteria to determine if a tube is balanced (for the sake of brevity I will not go into details).

Third, over time, parts drift; not just the tubes but all the push-pull circuitry. What's balanced today will not be balanced down the road.

There are counter arguments which I'll leave to the numerous experts that frequent the forum.

Cheers,

_________________
In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:31 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:18 am
Posts: 1530
Location: The Frozen Tundra of MN
ZZDoc wrote:
As long as the tubes continue to be built overseas we won't have to be concerned about the environmentonazis putting the kibosh to the tonequest.

I agree, it is always better to pollute your neighbors backyard than your own.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:04 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: Upstate, NY
mhowell wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Okay, here's a legit question. When did matching become a "thing"? Because I know there was a time when no one cared. Myself included. Not saying it's good or bad. Just wondering when it came about.


In my humble opinion matching is overrated for several reasons.

First, unless the entire push-pull circuitry is balanced it will not matter whether your tubes are balance or not.

Second, companies do not use the same criteria to determine if a tube is balanced (for the sake of brevity I will not go into details).

Third, over time, parts drift; not just the tubes but all the push-pull circuitry. What's balanced today will not be balanced down the road.

There are counter arguments which I'll leave to the numerous experts that frequent the forum.

Cheers,



I totally agree. Plus, back in the day no one cared. They just grabbed a tube and replaced it. So all the great tones that people chase were done on mismatched tubes. That's not to say that when I buy a back up set of tubes for my Bassman I won't get them matched. I might because it'll probably be just as easy to order them that way as any other way. However, I have no interest in scrapping 3 tubes because I lost one to keep a matched set. I'm sure there are arguments for it, but it's not for me. A tube goes and it gets replaced and I'm back up and running. However, I was just wondering when the whole "thing" came about. I don't remember it back when I started playing.

_________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/casanovafrankensteinandthevoodoomachine
https://www.facebook.com/CFandtheVM

2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:44 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
TheKingofPain wrote:
...back in the day no one cared. They just grabbed a tube and replaced it. So all the great tones that people chase were done on mismatched tubes....


Not exactly, and not necessarily. Not that they didn't care, they just didn't know. I do not agree that "ignorance is bliss". We know better now, so why dis matching just because we used to be ignorant? Plus, you can't assume that tubes were matched or mismatched if you didn't check.

As you pointed out, replacing one tube may have been done, probably due to budget concerns rather than any other reason. Now we know better. And with Cathode biased amps, things were a bit different.

Why would Leo put a balance pot, and a bias pot on his amps if there were no need for both tubes to operate relatively the same, or no need for biasing? :wink:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:23 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: Upstate, NY
shimmilou wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
...back in the day no one cared. They just grabbed a tube and replaced it. So all the great tones that people chase were done on mismatched tubes....


Not exactly, and not necessarily. Not that they didn't care, they just didn't know. I do not agree that "ignorance is bliss". We know better now, so why dis matching just because we used to be ignorant? Plus, you can't assume that tubes were matched or mismatched if you didn't check.

As you pointed out, replacing one tube may have been done, probably due to budget concerns rather than any other reason. Now we know better. And with Cathode biased amps, things were a bit different.

Why would Leo put a balance pot, and a bias pot on his amps if there were no need for both tubes to operate relatively the same, or no need for biasing? :wink:


I never said there was no need to adjust the bias or to have the amp adjusted. I know perfectly well how to run a tube amp. I'm just saying that there wasn't this obsession with the tubes being matched. I'm sure most amps were reasonably cared for and maintained as much as they could be. However, If a tube blew you put another in it's place. It was that simple. However, now they encourage you to replace them as a set. Not saying that it isn't wise, and there aren't sound reasons behind it. I'm just saying that no one did it, and yet they sounded just fine.

_________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/casanovafrankensteinandthevoodoomachine
https://www.facebook.com/CFandtheVM

2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Fender tubes are actually Sovtek?
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:27 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
Minnesotastrats wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
As long as the tubes continue to be built overseas we won't have to be concerned about the environmentonazis putting the kibosh to the tonequest.

I agree, it is always better to pollute your neighbors backyard than your own.

The Russians did both at Chernoble. China is following suit. What the environmentonazis left on the streets of NYC after their green gathering was sufficient enough to give the lie to their movement....unless it's really a bowel movement. :oops: :oops: :oops:

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: