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Post subject: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:03 am
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What does everyone think about Fender's Short Scale guitars? I favor them!


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:11 am
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Back in the day I had a brand new short scale 1971 Fender Mustang that I loved. Not sure what if anything is available new these days.


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:46 am
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Short scale means less room on the fretboard. With the width of Fender necks being so small already, it means guitars that a good portion of people won't be able to play.
So I am only for more short scale as long as they are an addition, and not resulting in fewer full scale guitars to choose from at the store.

But by all means, offer both short scale and long scale guitars, with bridges properly reconstructed for the different scale (I almost bought a Baritone Tele, until I found out the intonation could not be adjusted enough for the longer scale).


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:56 am
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I just ordered this Pawn Shop Mustang. I like the feel of the Mustang in a short scale, in place of the Gibson SG Std.'s. The P. S. Mustang has a good neck on it, and strings through the body. It also has a Jazz size nut, so it plays somewhat like a short Jazz with a Humbucking pup.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:40 am
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arth1 wrote:
Short scale means less room on the fretboard. With the width of Fender necks being so small already, it means guitars that a good portion of people won't be able to play.
So I am only for more short scale as long as they are an addition, and not resulting in fewer full scale guitars to choose from at the store.

But by all means, offer both short scale and long scale guitars, with bridges properly reconstructed for the different scale (I almost bought a Baritone Tele, until I found out the intonation could not be adjusted enough for the longer scale).


Short scale refers to scale length not the width of the neck. The scale length is the distance from the nut to the bridge saddles. They don't reconstruct a bridge for scale length. You just have to move it. A 25.5" scale length means the distance from the nut to the bridge saddles is 25.5". The difference is the frets would be slightly closer together on a short scale neck. Short scale guitars have been around forever. I own and play both with no issues at all.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:13 am
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63supro wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Short scale means less room on the fretboard. With the width of Fender necks being so small already, it means guitars that a good portion of people won't be able to play.
So I am only for more short scale as long as they are an addition, and not resulting in fewer full scale guitars to choose from at the store.

But by all means, offer both short scale and long scale guitars, with bridges properly reconstructed for the different scale (I almost bought a Baritone Tele, until I found out the intonation could not be adjusted enough for the longer scale).


Short scale refers to scale length not the width of the neck.


Well, duh, captain obvious! The point I was trying to make was that because Fenders already have rather narrow necks, the scale also being short makes for even less room for big fingers.

The open A box, for example, may allow for three big fingers to be placed diagonally on either a short scale neck or on a narrow width neck, but not necessarily on the combination of the two. This is surely obvious? Fender does not compensate for the shorter scale by making the neck wider, making the instruments less accessible for everyone.

63supro wrote:
They don't reconstruct a bridge for scale length. You just have to move it.


As the scale length increases, the difference in length between each correctly adjusted string increases too. For a longer scale instrument, you need a bigger leeway to be able to adjust both the longest and the shortest string correctly. Moving a bridge will not give you that. Moving a bridge will only help if you hit the limit on only one end - not when bridge doesn't allow for as big a difference as what the guitar needs. Then you need a bridge designed for the larger scale length. Fender does not bother to provide that, at least not on their Baritone Tele.
The problem becomes even more prominent when using a wound 3rd string, as one is more wont to do on a baritone guitar. Then being able to pull the 6th string back far enough while giving the 3rd string enough slack is impossible unless the bridge allows that much leeway, on the larger scale.

Conversely, for a shorter scale instrument, you may want intonation screws with less differential, i.e. better fine adjustment, because each fraction of a millimeter off will have a larger effect. Gibson's Tune-O-Matic (on their shorter scale instruments) give you that. Most Fender bridges, except Floyd Rose and a few others, have a bigger thread and less precise adjustment.

63supro wrote:
A 25.5" scale length means the distance from the nut to the bridge saddles is 25.5".

Close, but no cigar. The length between nut and bridge (string span) differs for each string. The scale length is half the string span of the shortest string plus half the string span of the longest string, or in some cases the average of all strings. But a NN.NN" scale length guitar will almost never have any string with s string span of NN.NN". As the scale length increases, the differences increase too, and for extra long scale guitars, the difference in length can be quite substantial.


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:25 am
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I've never felt comfortable playing a short scale neck. I can see some logic in the argument that they allow you to use heavier strings but then I've never found an 11-52 set with a G string that didn't sound plunky and lifeless.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:55 am
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arth1 wrote:
63supro wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Short scale means less room on the fretboard. With the width of Fender necks being so small already, it means guitars that a good portion of people won't be able to play.
So I am only for more short scale as long as they are an addition, and not resulting in fewer full scale guitars to choose from at the store.

But by all means, offer both short scale and long scale guitars, with bridges properly reconstructed for the different scale (I almost bought a Baritone Tele, until I found out the intonation could not be adjusted enough for the longer scale).


Short scale refers to scale length not the width of the neck.


Well, duh, captain obvious! The point I was trying to make was that because Fenders already have rather narrow necks, the scale also being short makes for even less room for big fingers.

The open A box, for example, may allow for three big fingers to be placed diagonally on either a short scale neck or on a narrow width neck, but not necessarily on the combination of the two. This is surely obvious? Fender does not compensate for the shorter scale by making the neck wider, making the instruments less accessible for everyone.

63supro wrote:
They don't reconstruct a bridge for scale length. You just have to move it.


As the scale length increases, the difference in length between each correctly adjusted string increases too. For a longer scale instrument, you need a bigger leeway to be able to adjust both the longest and the shortest string correctly. Moving a bridge will not give you that. Moving a bridge will only help if you hit the limit on only one end - not when bridge doesn't allow for as big a difference as what the guitar needs. Then you need a bridge designed for the larger scale length. Fender does not bother to provide that, at least not on their Baritone Tele.
The problem becomes even more prominent when using a wound 3rd string, as one is more wont to do on a baritone guitar. Then being able to pull the 6th string back far enough while giving the 3rd string enough slack is impossible unless the bridge allows that much leeway, on the larger scale.

Conversely, for a shorter scale instrument, you may want intonation screws with less differential, i.e. better fine adjustment, because each fraction of a millimeter off will have a larger effect. Gibson's Tune-O-Matic (on their shorter scale instruments) give you that. Most Fender bridges, except Floyd Rose and a few others, have a bigger thread and less precise adjustment.

63supro wrote:
A 25.5" scale length means the distance from the nut to the bridge saddles is 25.5".

Close, but no cigar. The length between nut and bridge (string span) differs for each string. The scale length is half the string span of the shortest string plus half the string span of the longest string, or in some cases the average of all strings. But a NN.NN" scale length guitar will almost never have any string with s string span of NN.NN". As the scale length increases, the differences increase too, and for extra long scale guitars, the difference in length can be quite substantial.


No, you're a little off. Intonation is a part of scale length, but when mounting a bridge, it needs to be at the proper distance. Not all bridges are adjustable. The saddles on acoustic guitars are compensated for intonation. I've built a few guitars, know how to set them up as well. Even six string cigar box guitars that intonate properly. The Captain Obvious comment was unessary. Two or three mm in fret spacing usually causes no problems for most players. People play all kinds of stringed instruments think violin, mandolin. You act like a short scale guitar has these little tiny spaces between the frets. :lol: I go from my Les Paul to my Strat to my 1955 Terse Tuned Martin Guitar which is around a 3/4 size guitar with no issues. It all about being comfortable when you play and what works for you.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:51 pm
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63supro wrote:
It all about being comfortable when you play and what works for you.

That much we can agree on! Want a beer?

In my case, I do great with an SG (which is shorter scale and wider neck) and OK with a Mexican Tele (which is narrow neck but longer scale), but I haven't found a Mustang yet that I can comfortably play with my big fingertips. I've tried, but it gets too crowded for me, especially those with jumbo frets.
Each person will have guitars that work great for them, and that's good - let there be diversity!


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:52 am
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Fender added three short-scale models in their Modern Player series: a matching pair of Stratocaster and Thinline Telecaster with Guild AntiHum humbuckers and a Jazz Bass with 18 frets and PJ pickups.

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These newest additions are not listed in the products page yet.


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:49 am
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arth1 wrote:
63supro wrote:
It all about being comfortable when you play and what works for you.

That much we can agree on! Want a beer?

In my case, I do great with an SG (which is shorter scale and wider neck) and OK with a Mexican Tele (which is narrow neck but longer scale), but I haven't found a Mustang yet that I can comfortably play with my big fingertips. I've tried, but it gets too crowded for me, especially those with jumbo frets.
Each person will have guitars that work great for them, and that's good - let there be diversity!


Beer! Sure!
Arth, remember who the Fender short scale guitars were originally made for. Fender was trying to tap the young kid market. The old 59 Duo Sonic was available in both 22.5 and 24 inch scale lengths with 21 frets. The Duo Sonic, Bronco, Musicmaster and Mustang were originally aimed at kids. I wanted a Competition Mustang with the racing stripe when I was a kid. My folks bought me a used 63 Supro Martinique in 1965 which I still have and play today. That guitar is pretty cool and is still original.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:43 am
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I don't know about how it effects nut width as my experiences with shorter scale instruments is limited. I know I don't like medium or short scale basses.

HOWEVER, in our house we have two acoustic guitars I use for songwriting. The first is my girlfriend's full length Fender acoustic that I despise. The action, the bronze phos strings, and how cramped the string spacing is by the nut all add up to me not liking it. I cringe when I pick it up.

Conversely, My eldest son has one of those older "Americana" series Gretsch acoustics which are the shorter scale. (3/4") I believe. I LOVE borrowing that guitar. While the shorter neck is odd, the string spacing is really wide which makes it really comfortable to play coming from a P bass. He has it strung with steel strings so it sounds great, too. It gets killer old school country style tone. I wish I could find an acoustic for myself that played and sounded like that. Not sure if shorter scale generally means wider spaced strings, but that's the case on this guitar. Which I really, really dig.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:57 am
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I like short scale basses, but I'm not a fan of short scale guitars.

I had a 1964 Fender Mustang years ago...it looked soooo cool--beautifully yellowed Oly white with a red tortoise pickguard, OHSC with that silver snakeskin covering...and I couldn't get comfortable with that axe, no matter what I tried...and I've felt that way about every short-scale guitar I've played since then. The "feel" just doesn't work for me. That's not to say I wouldn't try one again, but my experience thus far isn't very favorable.

However, I really liked the 1971 Fender Musicmaster Bass I owned, and a Bass VI of some sort--vintage, reissue, modified, whatever--is very high on my GAS list. My favorite basses of all time are long-scale (the first-generation '51-'56 Precision Basses and the later Telecaster Basses of the late 60's/early 70's), but I really like the short-scale basses I have played or owned. (I say this with the full disclosure that I'm a Bass Owner, not a Bass Player; I play for my own amusement or in the rare situation that there's nobody better at bass in the room).

Short-scale acoustics are fun for goofing around at a singalong/campfire setting, and I like the sound projection the small body affords you...but if I'm going to play a real, full acoustic set, I really want a full-scale, neck-meets-body-at-14th-fret dreadnought; this is probably just what I'm used to playing, though, and that could change if I were to use a little parlor or 3/4 scale guitar regularly.

All of this is subject to change... :lol: I reserve the right to flip-flop at any moment.

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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:57 am
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chromeface wrote:
Guild AntiHum humbuckers

This tautological superfluous pleonasm was proudly brought to you by the Guild Department of Redundancy Department.


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Post subject: Re: Short Scale Fenders
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:21 pm
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I've had this for a number of years and I love it--I actually prefer it to Strats.
I wouldn't mind a Strat--I like Strats, but I love Mustangs even more.

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