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Post subject: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fast!
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:33 pm
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i have a AVRI thinline and the vintage frets are wearing fast...why is this? i can see the groves from the strings up near the third frets, where i hold a lot of the common chords...

how would i know when i need new frets? do the vintage frets wear faster?

since my fretboard is maple and finished with some sort of lacquer, how do you refinish the frets without stripping the finish?

I also noticed you can't buy a 7.25 radius modern C profile neck with vintage frets anywhere!!! Not even Fender makes one...


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:04 pm
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How fast they wear will depend on how much you play and how much bending you do. I have a Tele with medium jumbo frets that I wore down in about two years. They can be dressed, and I am having that done now. It was sounding out of tune when I played on the first four frets.
When I get it back I'm expecting that the frets will be like vintage, which I don't really like but I'll live with.
I would guess that starting out with vintage frets will mean that there is less chance you will be able to get yours dressed. A luthier would have to look at them and tell you what he can do. The finish on the neck shouldn't cause any problem for doing a refret. A refret will be cheaper than buying a new neck.

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:52 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
How fast they wear will depend on how much you play and how much bending you do.

And on how heavy your touch is. Different people press more or less hard with their fretting hand.

Sometimes our touch lightens as we gain experience. I still have the neck of my very first guitar: I wore such deep grooves into the low position frets that it became unusable within two or three years (and wasn't worth the price of refretting). No guitar I've owned since has worn anything like so quickly. That's not because they're better guitars, it just means my technique improved after the early years.

We all wear out our frets at different speeds.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:31 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Drew365 wrote:
How fast they wear will depend on how much you play and how much bending you do.

And on how heavy your touch is. Different people press more or less hard with their fretting hand.

Sometimes our touch lightens as we gain experience. I still have the neck of my very first guitar: I wore such deep grooves into the low position frets that it became unusable within two or three years (and wasn't worth the price of refretting). No guitar I've owned since has worn anything like so quickly. That's not because they're better guitars, it just means my technique improved after the early years.


Also because I think that most guitar players start out in the comfort zone near the nut, and tend to use more of the neck as they get comfortable with all the positions a chord can be played in.

As for bending, that probably leads to less need for dressing the frets, not more. You counteract the grooves the strings dig in one place by spreading extra wear over a larger distance.


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:04 pm
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I would think the abrasivness from the the string rubbing back and forth across the fret would lead to faster wear. The wear on my Tele was elongated as though bending played a part. Not a scientific observation, just an observation.

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:35 pm
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Playing style and Touch, as mentioned above, both have a lot to do with Fret wear.

So does the Fret design and the material it's made from.

Most are an alloy of Copper, Nickel and Zinc.

Stainless Steel Frets often last the life of a guitar due to their hardness, but the trade-off is that you'll replace strings more often for the same reason, and may not appreciate the Sonic difference.

Replacing the neck isn't always a good option because these often require fret work to get them playing well, but can be cheaper sometimes than a full-on Fret Job.

There's also the option of just replacing the frets which are worn, a great option for someone with a 'heavy' touch, or new players who concentrate their playing on the Low end of the neck.

Here's probably more than you ever wanted to know about Frets and Fret Wear:

Understanding Frets and Fret Wear

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:47 pm
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Great read on that link!

What strange is that i am experienced, at least i think...I have been playing for over 10 years and have proper technique. However. I admit I get really really into our gigs and usually exert a lot of energy, I imagine I have heavy touch when gigging due to the energy on stage.

But still I havent even had this guitar for a year and there is a decent grove on the lower frets...

I always thought that a finished fret board would need to be stripped down to refret?

Does anyone know where you can buy a vintage neck, matching what comes on the AVRI 69 Thinline Tele? I believe it is 7.25 and modern C shape with a gloss lacquer finish.


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:09 pm
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teleric wrote:
Great read on that link!

What strange is that i am experienced, at least i think...I have been playing for over 10 years and have proper technique. However. I admit I get really really into our gigs and usually exert a lot of energy, I imagine I have heavy touch when gigging due to the energy on stage.

But still I havent even had this guitar for a year and there is a decent grove on the lower frets...

I always thought that a finished fret board would need to be stripped down to refret?

Does anyone know where you can buy a vintage neck, matching what comes on the AVRI 69 Thinline Tele? I believe it is 7.25 and modern C shape with a gloss lacquer finish.


Vintage-Style ’50s Telecaster® Neck - Maple Fingerboard

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:09 pm
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I'm sure you can find a vintage guitar dealer that would have a vintage neck that'll work... BUT...
All you most likely need is a fret level and dress. All a part of normal maintenance for any Guit-Fiddle.

Vintage frets generally don't last as long as Medium Jumbo or Jumbo frets... there's less fret material (the frets are smaller).. so they usually wear faster.
I have a vintage '62 RI Strat... have played it for years... quite a lot... the frets were VERY worn down.. however, there was still enough of the fret to have it leveled and dressed. So, that's what I did.

Plays like a dream... nice neck... comfortable and "Broken In".
When the frets wear down again... yeah... it's re-fret time... and frankly, I would rather re-fret than waste a nicely broken, comfortable and perfectly fine neck.
But that's just me...

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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:31 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
teleric wrote:
Great read on that link!

What strange is that i am experienced, at least i think...I have been playing for over 10 years and have proper technique. However. I admit I get really really into our gigs and usually exert a lot of energy, I imagine I have heavy touch when gigging due to the energy on stage.

But still I havent even had this guitar for a year and there is a decent grove on the lower frets...

I always thought that a finished fret board would need to be stripped down to refret?

Does anyone know where you can buy a vintage neck, matching what comes on the AVRI 69 Thinline Tele? I believe it is 7.25 and modern C shape with a gloss lacquer finish.


Vintage-Style ’50s Telecaster® Neck - Maple Fingerboard

cheers!


Unfortunately I would want a USA neck for my USA AVRI...also the AVRI came with a modern C shape, not vintage c shape. I have checked fender and Warmoth...neither has this combination. Perhaps that's why they discontinued the AVRI 69 Thinline...


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:32 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
I would think the abrasivness from the the string rubbing back and forth across the fret would lead to faster wear.

Faster wear, certainly, but over larger parts of the frets. You don't get the deep V grooves that non-benders get. In a way, you perform a microscopic fret dressing on part of a fret every time you bend, wearing off metal outside the groove. The shallow angle impedes playing less than the deep groove of non-bending, so even though you've worn off more metal, you may be able to go longer without seeing a luthier (who will wear the frets really fast, making the wear even more even).


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:34 pm
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Strat-Slinger wrote:
I'm sure you can find a vintage guitar dealer that would have a vintage neck that'll work... BUT...
All you most likely need is a fret level and dress. All a part of normal maintenance for any Guit-Fiddle.

Vintage frets generally don't last as long as Medium Jumbo or Jumbo frets... there's less fret material (the frets are smaller).. so they usually wear faster.
I have a vintage '62 RI Strat... have played it for years... quite a lot... the frets were VERY worn down.. however, there was still enough of the fret to have it leveled and dressed. So, that's what I did.

Plays like a dream... nice neck... comfortable and "Broken In".
When the frets wear down again... yeah... it's re-fret time... and frankly, I would rather re-fret than waste a nicely broken, comfortable and perfectly fine neck.
But that's just me...


but once frets are leveled and dressed, don't you still have less fret to work with? therefore, you will rub strings against the board...right?

I have guitars i have played for years that are still fine, BUT with this AVRI Thinline being my new main gigging guitar I am noticing decent groves withing under a year...makes me think in a another year I will need work done.


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:47 pm
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teleric wrote:
Strat-Slinger wrote:
I'm sure you can find a vintage guitar dealer that would have a vintage neck that'll work... BUT...
All you most likely need is a fret level and dress. All a part of normal maintenance for any Guit-Fiddle.

Vintage frets generally don't last as long as Medium Jumbo or Jumbo frets... there's less fret material (the frets are smaller).. so they usually wear faster.
I have a vintage '62 RI Strat... have played it for years... quite a lot... the frets were VERY worn down.. however, there was still enough of the fret to have it leveled and dressed. So, that's what I did.

Plays like a dream... nice neck... comfortable and "Broken In".
When the frets wear down again... yeah... it's re-fret time... and frankly, I would rather re-fret than waste a nicely broken, comfortable and perfectly fine neck.
But that's just me...


but once frets are leveled and dressed, don't you still have less fret to work with? therefore, you will rub strings against the board...right?

I have guitars i have played for years that are still fine, BUT with this AVRI Thinline being my new main gigging guitar I am noticing decent groves withing under a year...makes me think in a another year I will need work done.


Best thing to do IMO... speak w/ a competent/experienced luthier/guitar repair tech... discuss the issue. You can re-fret with a bigger fret... perhaps go w/ medium jumbos instead of the vintage style thin frets.

It's more money... but may be worthwhile for you. Before you do anything... explore all your options so you can make a well informed decision :wink:
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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:08 pm
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teleric wrote:
but once frets are leveled and dressed, don't you still have less fret to work with? therefore, you will rub strings against the board...right?


First question: yes
Second question: no

With a light touch close to the fret, your "therefore" falls away.
If you press the string against the fretboard, you press too hard and/or too far away from the fret, even with lower clearance.

Try playing with a scalloped fretboard - you'll quickly find out that all you accomplish by pressing hard is to sharp the tone, and that the optimal pressure is the minimal pressure to not get the string ringing against the fret.

Depending on your technique, getting less clearance can make vibrato harder. If you do vibrato pushing the string up and down like most(?) people, you'll have less space. If you do bending vibrato, it shouldn't matter. If you are one of the few that do length-wise wrist-based "violin style" vibrato, like Mike Oldfield, it might be slightly easier.

But yeah, let a luthier see how you play and make suggestions. That's probably the best recommendation here.


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Post subject: Re: How to know when I need new frets? AVRI frets wearing fa
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:17 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:

Stainless Steel Frets often last the life of a guitar due to their hardness, but the trade-off is that you'll replace strings more often for the same reason, and may not appreciate the Sonic difference.


cheers!


I have two guitars with SS frets, and I haven't found this to be true. My strings last just as long as on the nickel fret guitars. I have a show this weekend. The guitar I'm going to use has 6 month old strings. I never leave strings on for that long and I was shocked when I looked at my log and saw that. But they still sound fine. If they sound good through Friday's rehearsal, then I'll do the show with them.
Also, SS frets are like bending against ice, especially with the jumbo frets. That would be worth buying a few extra string sets if the wear issue was a problem.

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