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Post subject: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:52 am
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I am am pretty skilled electric guitar player, and I recently just bought a bass. I have started to record some demos and stuff on my own as well as some in my band. I previously used the built in mic in my computer because that was one of my only options at the time however I found online that you can use rock band mics through your computer lol. I started doing that and it sounds good however I am wanting to purchase a mic that will better record my guitar and bass amp as well as some singing. I am only using one mic so I'm not sure whether I need to buy a normal mic and buy a mixer to transfer it to a computer or buy a USB mic that will plug directly into a computer. Due to the fact that I just spend almost $500 on a new bass and amp and that I am only 15, I want a mic that is not extremely expensive but will get the job done nicely. Please feel free to give me suggestions on possible mic ideas!!!
Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:46 am
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A lot of people use the Sure SM57 as a "go to" mic for anything from instruments to amps to vocals to drums. They are around $100 but a great investment. Is that too pricey for your budget?

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:01 am
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strings10927 wrote:
A lot of people use the Sure SM57 ... Is that too pricey for your budget?

And if it is, then there's always the Shure PG57, which usually comes in around half the price of the SM57.

If you're just getting started at recording then by the time your ears can tell the difference you'll probably be ready to pay for the more expensive mic. Till then, nuttin' wrong with the PG series as a place to begin.

Then again, if you can afford to plump for the SM57 straight away you'll have a mic that'll last you forever. In time you may want to add to it, but probably never replace it. More guitar parts (and snare drums, and... etc) than you can shake a stick at have been recorded through that mic.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:30 am
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If cheap is a major criteria you could try the Behringer C-1.


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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:36 am
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I wouldn't recommend Behringer to anyone, it not built for the long haul. The Shure SM57 has been the standard of the industry forever and would be a great investment.

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:02 pm
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I always used an Alesis Multimix for demo and practice. It's fairly cheap, does a decent job, and the mixer can be used outside of recording applications. It came with a lower level Cubase software, but works pretty well.

As far as a mic for guitar, I liked using an Audix I-5. Shure SM57 is an industry standard. Both are fine.

You might find it interesting to know that when we recorded our albums, we didn't mic bass cabs. We went through an Aphex Bass Exciter pedal and straight into the board. Nowadays, I'd use my Bass preamp, but still direct into a board. It's not as necessary as guitar recording to mic it.

For a vocal mic, you're still probably better off with a cheaper large diaphragm mic than a live vocal mic. I'm going to have to disagree with Supro on one thing here. Generally he's right. But one thing Behringer makes that is really good is the Behringer B-2 Pro studio mic and you can find them as cheap as a Shure live vocal mic. I have 2 of them and they are a whole lot better than any stage mic I ever tried using for recording.

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:28 pm
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As mentioned, Shure's SM57 is an industry standard for non-percussive instruments. Sennheiser and AKG also build fine mics (what my engineer uses in his studio).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:56 pm
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63supro wrote:
I wouldn't recommend Behringer to anyone, it not built for the long haul. The Shure SM57 has been the standard of the industry forever and would be a great investment.


I mostly agree on Behringer but I have to say that I think I could kill someone with the C-1. And it was something like $42.


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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:07 pm
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Most decent mics will have a 3 pin XLR connector, and most of the good ones will be condenser mics that require 48V "phantom power". There are exceptions, but you will save yourself a lot of trouble down the road, and have something that lasts a lot longer if you pick up an audio interface with XLR mic input and the ability to power the mics. There are some cheap but decent options out there, and you may also find them used for not too much.
If that's too much, there's other options to let you hook up XLR mics, including the Blue Icicle: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Icicle/

But if I were you, I'd look for a used audio interface and mic. The risk is that you won't be too happy if you just buy a cheap mic with a plug going into the PCs mic port, especially since you play bass and don't really want the deeper tones to be cut off.

Yeah, it's money. Welcome to the world of music, where most players end up paying small fortunes for the privilege to play for others and get a tiny fraction back.


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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:14 am
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Okay. Mics.

First, recording guitar and bass with the same mic will mean that you have to sacrifice somewhere. If you get a kick mic (for bass) it won't be good at micing the guitar amp, and if you get a Shure 57 (PG or SM) it won't get you very good results for bass. So take that for what it's worth.

For guitars, I bought a PG 57 about 5 years ago for live sound applications for whatever guitarists I might be happening to work with, and for recording guitar parts personally. It's still going strong. The SM's are better, but if you're on a budget then a PG will likely last you a good long while. Certainly long enough until you can upgrade.

As a bassist I am much pickier about what I use to mic bass cabs. Using a guitar cab mic is unacceptable. I have owned a Shure Beta 52A for 8 years and swear by it. Years ago they were really pricey. They still aren't cheap by any means but you can probably pick one up during an online sale with a coupon.

However, if you're looking to do both and are only doing at home computer based recordings. I have to go with the above recommendation of getting a quality XLR and 1/4" usb port and some really good software. There is a lot you can do running straight into a PC now days. If you aren't going to be gigging anytime soon. Or at all on bass. Then investing in mics right now doesn't make a ton of sense, imo. Getting one decent mic (PG 57) will cover you for guitar, but your bass recordings will suffer and require more post work. Wait to get the mics for when you're ready to play out, or do more involved recordings. Just my opinion, of course.

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:26 am
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The previous are all good suggestions. I'll add that some of the MXL mics will do a fairly decent job since you're on a budget.

Audio-Technica AT2020 is another decent mic on a budget.

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Post subject: Re: I need some suggestions for a mic
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:09 pm
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1. A digital interface is the first thing to worry about. You can't just plug into the stock on-board soundcard input on a laptop and expect to make decent recordings. No matter what microphone or mixer you use it won't sound very good. The on-board soundcard in almost all computers is meant primarily to input communications quality audio for Skype and such. You will often get clicks, pops and drop outs when you try to record music or it will sound tinny. I had good results on an XP desktop machine with both a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard (which was meant for recording) for several years and then later with an amazing digital audio interface called a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which is a true digital recording interface. Since that machine got hit by lightning I haven't fooled with recording at home since. They still make the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. It is a 2 in and 2 out device. It sells for about $150 street. Just haven't gotten around to buying another one as I've not needed one. (I tried to fix the desktop machine with a new motherboard but the hard drive must have also been damaged as it wouldn't boot. I don't have the install discs anymore for any of that old software so I'm out of the recording biz for now and my Focusrite Scarlett got zapped too.)

2. The array of audio to digital interfaces is vast and confusing with a wide variety of prices but also a wide variety of quality. Additionally there are abundant compatibility issues. Many that work great with Windows XP do not work well with Windows 7 for example. The Turtle Beach sound card I liked with XP wouldn't work with Windows 7 or 8. And then there is MAC. So you have to find one that is known to work with your operating system and recording software. Consult forums for your recording software and find a digital interface that works with both your operating system and with your DAW software. If the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is known to work well with your operating system and also with your recording software/DAW then I can highly recommend that Focusrite device as a total portable/home recording wonder. It sounded amazing right up until it got fried. I could make recordings with the Focusrite that rivaled a real recording studio. No kidding.

3. Many people say anything Behringer sucks. This is based on their personal experience or the experience of people they know with one or two products and usually that was a guitar or bass amp or a PA amp. I'll be the first to admit some of their stuff is substandard. But I've had decent luck with small non-active Behringer mixers and I had good luck with my first Behringer B-1 recording microphone. Real good luck! So I bought a second B-1 to make live stereo recordings direct to computer. The Behringer B-1 is really amazing for the money. Very versatile as that one microphone can record vocals, guitars both acoustic and electric, ukuleles, flutes, horns, electric bass, drums, anything really. I can set my pair of B-1's up and record an entire band live and it actually sounded really decent almost as if every instrument was mic'ed up. I detest the active Behringer speakers, active mixers, bass amps and guitar amps. So, yes Behringer makes some very marginal stuff but obviously also makes some usable but affordable stuff. The trouble is telling what is good from what is bad in their line. Their dynamic mics are cheap but very durable and usable live, but probably best relegated to a rehearsal setup. (There is nothing like an SM58 or SM57 live.) The Behringer B-1 condenser mics are not bad for the money at all and give MXL and the other Chinese made cardioid condensers a run for the money. The trouble with the B-1 is the same as with ANY condenser, they are so dang sensitive they will pickup any stray noise down to your stomach rumbling, amp fans, computer fans, air conditioning, a dog three blocks away whimpering, etc. I've used a LOT of microphones and for the money the Behringer B-1 is a first rate steal. The difference between the B-1 and B-2 is a switchable pickup pattern. I just need cardioid and not bi-directional or figure 8, so I'm good with a B-1. If you want to record grand piano for example or catch some ambient reflections then a B-2 would be way way preferable to the B-1.

4. Two thirds of my 60 years were spent behind microphones. I worked in commercial broadcast and recording from 1968 till 2004. My favorite voiceover/vocal mic is the Shure SM7B. The SM7B is a dynamic and highly directional (think SM57 on steroids) so it is better for voiceovers since it is less sensitive to stray background noise and sound reflections, but the B-1 is warmer sounding up close at 1/3rd the money. Forget the EV RE20 and RE27ND. The EV's pale next to a Shure SM7B. The Shure SM57 previously recommended by others is maybe the best all purpose microphone in history based on the old Shure Unidyne III design unchanged acoustically since the 1960's. The SM57 is just not the best bass microphone or for most people the best vocal microphone. For me though the SM57 works better than the SM58 for live vocal use because I'm not a mic eater on stage. To record electric bass it is preferable to use either a SM7B or you can use a kick drum microphone like a Shure SM52 Beta or an AKG D112. I again prefer the SM7B here. Those are probably the top 3 recording microphones for bass and they are all dynamic. You could also use a Sennheiser MD421 dynamic but probably one of the other 3 would be more affordable and yield better bass recordings. The MD421 is like the SM57 in versatility but costs 3 times more. Or you could just use a Behringer B-1 for bass guitar too! I have recorded bass with a B-1 and it works as well for that as any of the others that cost 3 times more.

5. SK was right, you can just record the bass direct. This is very simple to do with almost any amp emulator like a Tech 21 Bass Driver or Aphex Bass Exciter or similar device patched direct to the mixer. I have a Behringer BDI-21 that I've used for recording, even though I also have a Tech 21 Bass Driver Deluxe that I also use. The Behringer BDI-21 is like $40 and while I wouldn't take it on a world tour because of durability concerns, it records well for a $40 pedal. I can get some good direct tones from it. The bass line on most records have been recorded direct since the late 1960's. However my favored bass recording technique is sort of a trade secret I'm revealing right here. I like to record two bass tracks simultaneously. While the bassist only plays the line ONCE you actually record it two ways simultaneously. You record one track direct to the mixer from the Bass Driver type device and the second track mic'ed with a bass capable microphone placed 1 to 2 feet in front of the cab so the tone can catch some air, old school style. Then in mixing you find the best mix of the two tracks for the just right bass sound for that particular piece. With the almost unlimited track capacity of some DAW software it is silly not to record the bass tracks this way because it is so simple to do and really no more time since you record both tracks at the same time. You can do this also with guitar and keys too. To me recording strictly direct can get to be sterile sounding with no acoustical vibe to it. Sometimes that sterile tone is good, but sometimes you want some real cab tones and ambiance! Many times a mix of the two different tracks is best. So using the dual direct/mic'd tracks technique is a good way to get versatility so that you don't have to record it over again if you don't like the tone of the direct or mic'd track. You can vary the levels on the two tracks to get some very different tones that you just can't get when you record only direct or only mic'ed up. Hope that makes sense. It is a very good and very simple technique to get the best possible bass recordings to fit the work. Like I said anything that you can record direct but that you can also record acoustically mic'd up should be recorded BOTH ways SIMULTANEOUSLY. It is like free insurance that you'll get the best possible tone for the work.


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