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Post subject: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:00 pm
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Okay so I can make a hundred bucks for playing 3 sets- BUT where I'm at the pickup bands I play with are just completely boring and they do not follow any agenda to make thier bands better- no aspirations to go to another level- no song lists- no practicing- --as much as two minutes or better between songs--playing 50 year old tunes- people leave-- they can be really good players but I think they lost the fire a while back- like 20 years ago. Anyone know this type situation?
I don't know-----I've just always tried to advance my playing and situations but with the pickup bands I feel like I'm taking a big step backward just for money. I don't want to do that anymore.
This may be an old geezer thing too for all I know--


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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 pm
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I know the situation in a different way. One of the biggest reasons I quit HaleAmano was I saw where the band was heading before the rest of the group even did.

When we started, we didn't have a whole set list of originals yet, so a few covers were thrown in. As the band progressed, the list of originals and covers grew bigger until we were able to do 3-hour gigs.

We put out or first album and it went over well here. Casinos were hiring us, the cd was fairly successful, and then the unthinkable happened.

4-of the 6 guys in the band quit their jobs. Now they wanted to live on the Casino gigs. It really wasn't enough to live on for me. Now the band was booking 3-5 gigs a week and the money was barely enough for everyone to survive.

When it came time to record our second effort, the band tried desperately to record it for as cheap as possible. Rehearsals for it were few and far between, and even then, most of the practice time was used to rehearse new covers or to be a backing band for other artists.

When I heard the final product of the second album, I knew the band was done. The quality was so awful I almost pulled my songs off of it (I still think I should have). So I went back to work as a finish carpenter.

The band is still around. They still continue to do the same covers, same songs from the first 2-albums (minus mine), still play 3-5 gigs a week to scrape by, and still live with their parents.

I didn't sign up for that, and I won't do it again.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:15 pm
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There's nothing at all wrong with being a finish carpenter. Good money, steady work, and enough free time to pursue your semi-pro musical pursuits.

Rawk on!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:51 am
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I was playing locally I couldn't care less about the band 'progressing' or getting big.

I was playing music I loved with my best mates twice a week, having a laugh, meeting some interesting people, and getting sh*tfaced afterwards. Lots of bands around us who wanted to get bigger split because they were arguing and the pressure of trying to progress became more than the fun they had playing.

Also the increase in the boobies quota helped immeasurably.


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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:16 am
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stroker vance wrote:
I feel like I'm taking a big step backward just for money.

If it makes you feel any better, that was $100 for three sets. Or about $33 per set.

But that $100 has to pay for your gas to get to the performance and back, batteries/guitar strings/picks, etc.

After your supplies and gas have been deducted, divide what's left by how many hours you spent at the venue (3 sets = at least 3 hours, right? But probably closer to 4, since you had to carry your gear in and wait around) and you have your hourly rate.

Oh and you have to take out for taxes, you are paying taxes on that, right? :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:28 am
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My latest creation:
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Built the whole bar. Check out that Mahogany bar top. Turned out looking nice.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:38 am
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The band I'm in is getting to a similar point. We were doing full nights, about half covers and half originals and it's been a revolving door of drummers and honestly I doubt the sincerity of my band mates to get better at their craft. With each member change the set lists have decreased. The rehearsals are fewer and far between. It shows on stage. Worse. For a few members the personal practice time has obviously been put on the back burner.

Meanwhile, I do whatever I can to put more work into the songs, and my craft as a bassist. I'm turning 40 this year. I have zero aspirations about "making it" or whatever. Honestly, given what I've seen of the music industry I really have zero desire to.

However, I do want to continue to get better as a songwriter, performer and instrumentalist. Phoning it in is both disrespectful to the audience, and to yourself as an artist, imo.

It's weird because we're recording for a release right now, and we just had a live show recorded. The production company that put the show together really wants to put some muscle behind the set we did and get it done right and released as a live ep.

Meanwhile, I'm just standing back looking at it all thinking it's a completely wasted effort. Not because the songs aren't good enough. Because they are. I just don't think we play them up to their potential, and I doubt the band will put in the work required to support a push like that.

I've got a few offers from other people in the community to get in on projects on either bass, or as a guitarist. Everyone else is looking at the brass ring, but isn't willing to do the work to get it or make it shine. I'm just looking at the door. It's kind of depressing.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:39 am
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Jah Soldier wrote:
My latest creation:
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Image

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Built the whole bar. Check out that Mahogany bar top. Turned out looking nice.



Nice work!

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:52 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
The band I'm in is getting to a similar point. We were doing full nights, about half covers and half originals and it's been a revolving door of drummers.
Ah, the drummers... During the longest run of my two bands in Minnesota (about 12 years of very steady gigging), I went through 17 drummers! I finally decided that I had had enough when the 17th showed up for a New Year's Eve gig in time for the second set.

These days I play solo. I feel your pain.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:56 am
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I absolutely hate bands who just churn out the same covers over and over, night after night with no attempt at songwriting. I've not even been to see a cover band in years, I got so sick of hearing the same songs from every bar band. I'd rather hear a badly-played orignal song from someone who's at least trying than the most polished version of Wonderful Tonight from a bunch of lazy musos who know they'll never get any better at music than that.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:08 am
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What I hate are bands that play original after original with nothing different, unique, or worthy in it's structure, message, or theme that would entice me or any other discerning listener to want to hear it. Yet they keep on writing, playing, and cranking out CD after CD. Apparently no one informed them that it takes at least as many years of concentrated effort to learn how to write decent songs as it does to master an instrument in a presentable fashion.

I see nothing wrong with doing covers. It's the best way for a band to really learn what it takes to write a well structured song with appropriate production values. It also serves as a very good guide to the group about what style(s) of music work best for them. These are skills they can take into developing their own material. Unfortunately, when it comes to covers a lot of musicians are okay with just mailing in their efforts rather than really dissecting the song to figure out all the parts and the dynamics that went into it. We call those "garage bands" where I come from.

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Last edited by dunedindragon on Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:19 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
I absolutely hate bands who just churn out the same covers over and over, night after night with no attempt at songwriting. I've not even been to see a cover band in years, I got so sick of hearing the same songs from every bar band. I'd rather hear a badly-played orignal song from someone who's at least trying than the most polished version of Wonderful Tonight from a bunch of lazy musos who know they'll never get any better at music than that.



Agreed. I don't know where the point changed. It was definitely before my time as a gigging musician. However, I've seen old live clips and it seems like back in the 60's and maybe the early 70's even when you covered something you did it "your way". Which is something I've always stressed. Just take a song. Strip it down, and play it the best way the band can that makes it sound like them. This seemed to be the practice back in the day when bands had real band leaders who guided a bands sound to get the most out of the players. Or with bands made up of all accomplished players.

Nothing makes me cringe worse than someone trying to play note for note someone else's work. I hate it. No matter how good you are. It's never them. It's like being a wind up monkey with cymbals. I've had a couple offers to join "capital C" cover bands. I never took them. The last thing I'd want to do is turn something I love into punching a clock doing a job I hate.

We used to have two guitarists and one had to move to the other side of the country. The guy who tried to fill his spot I knew wouldn't work out the minute he walked in the door. Some hold out from the 80's hair metal era. Comes in after listening to us and decides that the rig and axe he should bring is a Marshall Stack and his LP. Then proceeds to set up and launch into some obnoxious Zepplin song on "11". The rest of the band wanted to go with him. I voiced my opinion that he wouldn't work out. They disagreed, but then later ended up parting ways with him after a month and one gig.

So, As if my initial impression of him wasn't spot on enough it was sealed when we were doing our version of Gold Dust Woman. Which lands somewhere between Fleetwood Mac's and Hole's and he gets pissy because we aren't playing it the "real" way. So I laughed at him and said which version is the "real" way? So he got whiny and said that he could play what our old guitarist played, or he could play it the "real" way. I said I want to hear what "you" want to do with the song. What do you have to say about it as a guitarist. To which he had no response. That right there told the band everything they needed to know.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:28 am
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dunedindragon wrote:
I see nothing wrong with doing covers. It's the best way for a band to really learn what it takes to write a well structured song with appropriate production values. It also serves as a very good guide to the group about what style(s) of music work best for them. These are skills they can take into developing their own material. Unfortunately, when it comes to covers a lot of musicians are okay with just mailing in their efforts rather than really dissecting the song to figure out all the parts and the dynamics that went into it. We call those "garage bands" where I come from.



Considering that the majority of popular music isn't necessarily very well crafted I don't think this is true. While studying how others have played music is important as an instrumentalist. Learning how each instrument works and how and where it can be used effectively isn't really done by just hashing out covers. That just turns you into a group of musicians who copy things. Learning theory, and arrangement are what helps you learn how to write a good song. It teaches you why those people played what they did, and why they played it in that manner. Sure you could spend years playing someone else's work til you figure out how to write songs. However, you'll just know how to write songs like someone else. That seems like purposely running a race at the back of the pack to see what winning looks like.

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 am
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One great bit of advice I had from a producer - play covers like YOU wrote them, play your own songs like they're covers.

https://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/oops-i-did-it-again

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Post subject: Re: Done with Pickup gigs
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:39 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Nice work!


Thanks. I made more money building that bar than I ever would playing at it. So I'm cool with the trade switch right now.

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