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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:10 am
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ebaysux wrote:
So you are trying to convince us that this...

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Is more recognizable worldwide then this....

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Worldwide, yes, absolutely.
In order to recognize Eddie Van Halen's guitar, you have to have seen it. There's little exposure for those who don't get close to the top of the charts, and EVH was only a superstar within the US.

Case in point: when I moved to the US in '99, I had never seen his guitar. He was never played on TV, and the only concert he had done in my neck of the woods was as a warm-up band for AC/DC. That tour, in '84, went so badly that Van Halen left after five of seven concerts. Later, others like David Lee Roth have complained how Van Halen doesn't tour enough outside the US.
So no, the exposure just isn't there, world wide. He can be bigger than god in the US, but worldwide he's largely unfamiliar, never having been near the top of the charts.

(I'd say Kiss' guitars would be more recognizable worldwide too, but that's mostly because most of them either had KISS in big letters, or the picture of the player... That's cheating. :D )


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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:54 am
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arth1 wrote:
In order to recognize Eddie Van Halen's guitar, you have to have seen it. There's little exposure for those who don't get close to the top of the charts, and EVH was only a superstar within the US.

Yah. Ummm. Sorry. Everybody knows Eddie. Everybody. Around the world. You are off base. Period.

Everybody knows Queen too but everybody knows Freddie Mercury. Brian May? He doesn't have one tenth the notoriety of Eddie. And Brian May's guitar? Puh-lease ....

I have friends in New Zealand. I have friends in Australia. I have a friend in Hong Kong. I have a friend in India. I know at least a dozen people in Scotland. When I say Eddie, they know who I am talking about. When I say Queen they think Freddie.

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:43 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
arth1 wrote:
In order to recognize Eddie Van Halen's guitar, you have to have seen it. There's little exposure for those who don't get close to the top of the charts, and EVH was only a superstar within the US.

Yah. Ummm. Sorry. Everybody knows Eddie. Everybody. Around the world. You are off base. Period.


Care to back that up with some facts, not just wishful thinking and "because everybody knows"?

What top hit did Van Halen ever have in Europe?
What TV channels did he get exposure on?
Did they or did they not abort the '84 "Monsters of Rock" European tour after just five concerts?
Did they or did they not cancel their '98 European tour due to lack of ticket sales?
Did they not cancel the overseas parts of their 2013-2014 tour too?
Sorry, but while Van Halen is certainly a known name, it's not a big name outside the US. Really.

Again, an impressive 13 #1 hits in the US, and ZERO in Europe, with the best placement ever on the biggest European chart being #34.

Again, you have to have seen the guitar to recognize it, and when the TV exposure and concerts wasn't there, how, exactly, would people have seen the guitar?
Certainly not from being a B-artist played on the radio every now and then.

BMW-KTM wrote:
Everybody knows Queen too but everybody knows Freddie Mercury. Brian May? He doesn't have one tenth the notoriety of Eddie.

Thank goodness for that. Being a good guy, he has fame instead of notoriety.

(And besides, what you say about Queen and Freddy Mercury can be said about Van Halen and David Lee Roth too.)


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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:43 am
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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am
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whatever....

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:01 am
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arth1 wrote:
What top hit did Van Halen ever have in Europe? ....an impressive 13 #1 hits in the US, and ZERO in Europe

Jump (1984)

Charts

Chart (1984) Peak position
Australia (Kent Music Report) 2
Austria (Ö3 Austria Top 40) 4
Belgium (Ultratop 50 Flanders) 28
Canada Top Singles (RPM) 1
France (SNEP) 7
Germany (Media Control AG) 4
Ireland (IRMA) 2
Italy (FIMI) 1
Netherlands (Dutch Top 40) 29
New Zealand (Recorded Music NZ) 12
Sweden (Sverigetopplistan) 11
Switzerland (Schweizer Hitparade) 4
UK Singles (The Official Charts Company) 7
US Billboard Hot 100 1
US Billboard Mainstream Rock 1

Year-end charts

Chart (1984) Peak position
Australian Kent Music Report 28
Canadian RPM Top Singles 14
German Media Control Charts 44
Italian Singles Chart 36
South African Singles Chart 13
UK Singles Charts 86
US Billboard Hot 100 6
US Cashbox Top 100 5

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:46 am
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I'm not sure going by billboard hits is a good angle to go by here. And the reason I say that is, if it's radio that generates the numbers that top the charts, well... You can't SEE any guitar on the radio. If it's album sales, I'm not so sure either one of them sported their guitars on the covers. That's where I think Angus' SG would prevail.

Taking those aside, there is Live performance. But in reality, I think even if you had 100,000 people at a show, how many of them would recognize Brian May's guitar even an hour after the show?

Then there's magazines, which I think as many times as both had been in them and on covers, Eddies would stand out and be recognized upon a second look much easier, for its outlandish appearance.

But the one entity that ruled them all during the days when both bands were performing transcended all of that.

And that entity would be MTV. Once the popularity of MTV took off, the worldwide visual exposure was front and center. Video killed the radio star, and Van Halen and his guitar was plastered all over it every single day.

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention that while Van Halen as a band may have never had a number one hit across the pond. Eddie did do a guitar solo for Michael Jackson's "Beat It" which I'm sure did hit #1 in a lot of charts, and also had a video for that on MTV as well.

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:06 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
EDIT: I almost forgot to mention that while Van Halen as a band may have never had a number one hit across the pond. Eddie did do a guitar solo for Michael Jackson's "Beat It" which I'm sure did hit #1 in a lot of charts, and also had a video for that on MTV as well.

Good point. Eddie (and 'Frankenstein') didn't appear in the video, but he did perform it live with Michael on the Victory Tour (1984).

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:35 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
But the one entity that ruled them all during the days when both bands were performing transcended all of that.

And that entity would be MTV. Once the popularity of MTV took off, the worldwide visual exposure was front and center. Video killed the radio star, and Van Halen and his guitar was plastered all over it every single day.


Was it? In the US, perhaps. MTV Europe did not have the same play list as MTV USA. One difference was what was considered taboo in each place (nudity in the US, gratuitous violence and swastikas in Europe). But what music was popular differed too. I fondly remember some MTV videos which were presumably played world wide like Brothers in Arms, Mr. Roboto, Take on Me, Thriller and Legs, but also some hits that presumably weren't much played in the US, like Woodpeckers from Space, Da Da Da, Computer Love, 99 Luftballons, Making Your Mind Up - and presentations by Ray Cokes.
But I don't remember seeing Van Halen. Or Sammy Hagar. Or Bruce Springsteen. Or any number of other American icons. It could be because Europe was less into guitar based rock. Or there could be other reasons (record companies not promoting overseas?). But what's a superstar one place might be a B-artist somewhere else.


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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:16 pm
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arth1 wrote:
some hits that presumably weren't much played in the US, like Woodpeckers from Space, Da Da Da, Computer Love, 99 Luftballons, Making Your Mind Up - and presentations by Ray Cokes.

Of these, I definitely remember seeing Da Da Da and 99 Luftballoons by Nena (also the english language version '99 Red Balloons' - both versions were played here).

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:54 pm
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Arth, would you say that any band who is in the top 100 of all time music sales (or album sales) in the history of the world would be considered a worldwide big?

Sure, everyone has their strong and weak demographics. But in my opinion, if your band makes that list as of today, you are or were extremely recognized.

Google top music sales of all time, and you'll find Van Halen well within that top 100 of certified sales. Not the top, but somewhere in the middle or upper middle depending on which site you look up.

You'll see a lot of names in that list that have no "guitar hero" or really any iconic guitar to put with the name (for example, Celine Dion or Elton John, etc.).. Being that The Beatles top pretty much every list, it could be that we're missing what "could" actually be the most iconic guitar (Bass guitar) in Paul McCartney's Hofner violin Bass. I think a case could be made for that.

I think to be a truly iconic guitar, people have to immediately be able to recognize it, and put an artist to it. We're guitar players, so it's different for us, than people who aren't. With album sales within that top 100 all time parameter cases could be made for a few.

Jimi Page being very high on every list? Maybe. But what exactly IS recognizable? If you take someone who is a huge Led Zeppelin fan, who knows Jimi plays a Les Paul, and show them a BLUE Les Paul, will they make the correlation? It's a good question anyway. If you show an average person Eric Clapton's Blackie, will they simply see a black guitar.. Of some sort?

McCartney, Angus, Eddie, Brian May, all played the same guitar, same shape, same color throughout their careers. Page had his Sunbursts and double neck SG. Fair enough.

I still think that of those artists Eddie and McCartney had the more uncommon of the bunch. That's what stands out. In my opinion anyway. And I still give EVH the nod because it's my belief that color becomes more recognizable than shape or brand in this case. It's the most wild natured color, therefore becomes more recognizable. That's my theory anyway. Paint any guitar that color, it immediately becomes a Van Halen guitar.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be dead wrong, but it's my hypothesis when it comes to the issue of iconic guitar and what it means relative to artist, guitar, exposure, recognition of guitar as a result.

A different angle to look at it could be this. If you paint a drum set that color, it most likely would be perceived as a Van Halen drum set. Pick anything, paint it like Eddie's Frankenstein, it becomes Van Halenized.

What's more iconic than that?

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:02 pm
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I am not going to bother quoting all the replies since I last signed on but will say I still am pretty firm on the EVH guitar being more "iconic" or recognizable world wide then the Brian May guitar. However from worldwide record sales Queen takes it over Van Halen. But this post is not about which bands have more record sales but which popular electric guitar is more iconic.

I would only be convinced if there was a scientific poll conducted world wide with simply a picture of the May guitar and the EVH guitar and people were asked what band the guitar is from. I would put my money on the EVH being recognized more by a massive landslide.

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:41 pm
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Well, we know that won't happen but .... we also know that Brian May's guitar would never be recognized outside of die hard Queen fans. World wide sales or not.

And by the way, (for artie) when people think of Van Valen they think of Eddie, not DLR. I mean .... like ... seriously? The band is whose name again? Oh right. Van Halen.

Duh.....
:roll:

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Last edited by BMW-KTM on Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:41 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Of these, I definitely remember seeing Da Da Da and 99 Luftballoons by Nena (also the english language version '99 Red Balloons' - both versions were played here).

Come to think about it, there aren't too many songs not in English or Spanish that appears to have made an impression in the US. 99 Luftballons is one (even if the English version perhaps was more popular).

Now I wonder - were these hits in the US (vaguely chronological order)? They certainly were huge hits back in Europe:

Pata Pata (Miriam Makebe)
Je t'aime ... moi non plus (Serge Gainsbourg)
Autobahn (Kraftwerk)
Hallelujah (Milk and Honey)
Theme to Harry's Game (Clannad)
Ça Plane Pour Moi (Plastic Bertrand - Elton Motello had an Engish version)
Der Kommissar, Rock Me Amadeus and Jeanny (Falco)
Joe Le Taxi (Vanessa Paradis)
Sadeness (Enigma (Michael Cretu, not the British pop band))
Rammstein (and various other songs) (Rammstein)

And I also wonder which American songs I missed, growing up in Europe.
Time to find out now that I'm old, I guess? :D


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Post subject: Re: Which Popular Electric Guitar Is Most Iconic?
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:55 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Jah Soldier wrote:
EDIT: I almost forgot to mention that while Van Halen as a band may have never had a number one hit across the pond. Eddie did do a guitar solo for Michael Jackson's "Beat It" which I'm sure did hit #1 in a lot of charts, and also had a video for that on MTV as well.

Good point. Eddie (and 'Frankenstein') didn't appear in the video, but he did perform it live with Michael on the Victory Tour (1984).

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I guess almost like SRV being on Bowies huge hit "Let's Dance". The song as popular as it was does not inspire me to think about Stevies guitar since SRV is not in the video (actually Bowie himself "Milli Vanillis" the SRV solo at the end of the vid) but knowing it is as a guitar and pop music enthusiast, just like knowing Eddies playing in MJ's "beat it", adds a measure of iconic-ness to them.

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