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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:06 am
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63supro wrote:
As far as the environment goes.....recycling facility.

there ya go! :D

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:42 am
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A far as modeling amps and software goes, I know guys who swear by Amplitube and some of the other iPad/iPhone apps, I myself even have an iRig. I don't like the way that makes me sound either. It's okay for noodling some ideas around, but I wouldn't perform with it. We have a local band that performs with their guitars even electronic drums. They used to be a big deal in Philadelphia back in the day playing all kinds of big venues. Now they're sound is just thin and lame and they can't fill a fifty seat bar. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:59 am
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Jah:

Thanks for sharing your audition and observations of the Mustang IV performance!
Reading that someone like you was "...effing blown away..." makes me want to go audition one.

Now I'm not comfortable with all that software stuff,
but from what I understand, one can still modify and save their models right on the amp's control panel, right?
Get ya one and let us know how ya like it !!!

It's cool that we can try new technologies, improve older ones, and still hang on to the tried and proven ones too!
And I'm glad that Fender isn't stuck in any one technology
and yet is not abandoning any classic technology in its progress.


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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:07 am
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I've seen some great observations and opinions in this thread -- thanks to all who chose to air their views.

My issue is not with this particular amp's tone, features, or even the "disposable" nature of its construction -- some folks like the tone, enjoy the features, and don't mind heaving it when it inevitably breaks (and all amps eventually break, regardless of when or where they were made, or by who).

My sole concern is the deliberate planned obsolescence of the design. Good Lord I have some old clock radios (both tube and solid-state) that were sold by K-Mart as "blue-light specials" for $8.99 thirty or forty years ago that still play fine and even keep relatively accurate time. They were built to last, and using industry-standard components that can still be found should repairs be necessary.

This is precisely why the vintage amps survive. And truth told, I'd like to see every Fender product built to the same standard of reliability, durability, and logistical supportability -- whether I like personally like the particular amp or not. To the naysayers and the doubting Thomases who think I'm full of it, relax. I'm in your corner......trying to get better-built products for you.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:30 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
I made my living in electronics for over thirty-two years and I've seen it all come and go. And one of the few types of industrial/commercial design that's never been eclipsed by the latest fad is the vacuum-tube audio amplifier. And of those, Leo Fender's were among the best.


Completely agree. When a tube amp breaks it can be repaired with a soldering iron, new tubes. caps, resistors or at the very worst a new transformer.

When a digital device breaks there is no way of repairing it for the average (or well above average) user. It either goes back to the manufacturer for replacement or it goes in the garbage.

I know which option I'd rather have one hour before a gig.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:40 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
And truth told, I'd like to see every Fender product built to the same standard of reliability, durability, and logistical supportability

If they can do it without raising prices significantly, I would fully endorse this idea. The problem is they can't. Nobody can. The sad fact is it just costs too much to produce an all American made and hand assembled product these days. My Pontiac has a Toyota engine in it.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:45 am
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Even IC sockets would help a lot. Nothing worse than trying to de-solder an IC from a PCB. Many times that's what takes a dump. I have no problem with people who use and enjoy new technology and I too wake up to a GE clock radio from 1979. It has a phone in it too but pulse dial doesn't work with the phone line anymore. :lol: I wish they went back to quality boards and sockets. Tone is subjective quality isn't.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:01 pm
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63supro wrote:
Tone is subjective quality isn't.


+1

Distilled down to the fundamental theorem, Supro.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:05 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
And truth told, I'd like to see every Fender product built to the same standard of reliability, durability, and logistical supportability

If they can do it without raising prices significantly, I would fully endorse this idea. The problem is they can't. Nobody can. The sad fact is it just costs too much to produce an all American made and hand assembled product these days. My Pontiac has a Toyota engine in it.



And there lies the problem. You can't have cheap quality. Quality parts and durability cost money. It doesn't cost more to produce products in America. The companies profits are a bit lower. VHT is building American made hand wired amps for the price of a HRDlx, and in my opinion sound better too. Supro USA are doing a series of Supro/Valco hand wired American made amps like the legendary Supro Thunderbolt for $1,250 and under. Peavey has done it too. Now I understand Peavey has moved some stuff overseas. It's nothing more than corporate greed. They've brainwashed people into wanting cheap disposable garbage. Sorry guys, but even $1,500 is not a lot of cash for a quality American made product. Whether it's a guitar, amp, hot water heater or a stove. I just bought a GE hybrid hot water heater made in America for $800. It was worth it to me. I like to think I can keep Americans working. The pedals I build have better boards and parts on them than these amps and guys and fooled into thinking they can gig with these amps for the long haul. I'd be worried a good shock from static electricity or a slight surge would take them out. :lol:

Reliability wise, you're better off with the Toyota engine, which may have been built here at one of the Toyota facilities.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:13 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
upnorth, you are certainly welcome to continue damaging the environment with your old technology. :wink: What I'm saying is, if the question is reliability over 25-30 years for a digital modeling amp, you're simply missing the point.

Jah Soldier wrote:
To be honest, I think it's the other way around. I think you're backing up his stance. This is pretty much what he believes the Mustang to be. An amplifier built so cheaply, that it won't last even 8-years. He could be right, maybe not, the verdict isn't out yet.

I am indeed saying these are made to be disposable. What's so bad about that? If you're looking at my Mustang III and thinking it will last as long as an old school hand made amp from the 50's or 60's, then, as I said, you're not 'getting' it.


I actually never mentioned anything like that. The question first presented was whether a Mustang IV would last 25-30 years. That's not even to say "obsolete" or whether people are still interested in them.

My stance is that based on the fact that I still see a lot of working digital gear from the 80's, then I don't see why a Mustang IV couldn't last that long. Whether they're being sold on eBay, or flooding pawn shops or Craigslist, I still think that you'll still see working Mustang IVs around.

It's kind of odd to be defending an amp I don't even own, but that's how I'm basing my opinion.

There's still a reason why I bought the H&K and Heidkamp (when I really barely had the money for them) I believe that those two will definitely stand a good test of time. And to get them both for a total of $1,000 was 100% insane. Anything I buy outside of those 2 amps will be for different reasons.

What I'm looking for is a good SS amp that can handle the versatility of the things I record with those 2 amps. Of course, I know there will be a drop in actually quality of sound. But I absolutely will not gig with those amps. It's either continue to build on my pedal board and use the JC, try a good Multi-effects board, or a modeling amp. The sound of that Mustang IV was outstanding.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:20 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
I actually never mentioned anything like that.

yes, I know. I was quoting another forum user and you had responded to that post. Read back.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:23 pm
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I would not base my opinion on some fantastic guitar player make a junk amp sound good. We all know that certain players can make anything sound good. So until I myself try something I would never be giving any kind of opinion on such things. Aside from the old Lab Series amps Ive never heard a SS amp that I liked. This is just my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:27 pm
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Jah, the point trying to be made here is the digital and solid state gear from the 80's was built better and used better components. The stuff was heavy too. My Fender Fuzz Wah's built like a tank. Same thing with the original Mutron stuff I had.That's why it's still here. Looking at the board and the components in my GDec, I don't think it'll last long. I only play that once in a blue moon now and with backing tracks from an iPod on stuff I'm asked to play on. It's glitchy and getting weird stuff going on too. I have the remote pedal for that too.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:13 pm
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Very cool interesting stuff to draw from in this thread. It's been a great one so far. Thanks for all of your input.

About the only thing missing from this thread is any input from Fender concerning their components or design. Now that would be interesting.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:16 pm
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Probably the most interesting question to ask then would be:

Is this kind of technology going forward and backward at the same time?

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