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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:25 pm
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One thing to look at since this is modelling gear is that the different model numbers: Mustang I, Mustang II, Mustang III, Mustang IV, and Mustang V refer to amp configuration (Output wattage, speaker configuration, etc.) But they aren't "newer or upgraded" versions of each other. To find the newer and more advanced version of the series you need to see if it is V.1 or V.2.

The newer hardware version (V.2) and newer software (FUSE V.2.7.1) offer better modelling and more choices than prior versions.

I wonder how upgradable they are. Software is easy enough, but what's the shelf life for hardware/firmware before you have to buy a new amp in order to upgrade to the current standard? Can you upgrade from V.1 to V.2 with a firmware update, or are older units unable to upgrade?

I would buy one for a practice amp, since I only play around my own house nowadays, and cranked tube amps aren't neighbor friendly (too old for my old screw it play anyway attitude,) if I knew I could continue to keep current without reinvesting in a new amp for a while.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:05 pm
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Had one of these SS Marshall's, my first amp, dumped it for Hybrid Marshall AVT which lies dormant most of the time, just noodle about now on a little 4 watt Vox 4, the guy in the vid made a couple of cap changes and it sounds pretty nice to my ears, at times I wished I'd kept mine, seen a few on ebay for buttons


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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:23 pm
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While I agree with Arkay that there the amp won't likely be as valuable, reliable or repairable as the late Blackface/early Silverface amps of yore, I would counter that MOST consumer items--musical equipment, electronics, clothing, even homes--won't last that long, either.

It's an unfortunate trend that started in the 80's and hasn't stopped yet.

However, sometime an initial assessment (based on "common" or even "uncommon" knowledge) can sell an item unfairly short. Case in point:
I bought my '63 reissue Vibroverb (2x10 combo, brown Tolex) amp new in 1992. I bought it based one three things--(1) it sounded equally good for harp and guitar, (2) it was a Fender tube amp that I could afford [$500] and (3) it looked cool (give me a break, I was young). It also weighed considerably less than my 1972 Bassman Ten.

About six or seven years after I bought it, the (admittedly cruddy) Oxford-style speakers blew. (Everyone who owns these amps say that these speakers were the bane of the model--flabby on the low end and delicate in durability...anyway...).
Rather than recone the speakers, I replaced them with some Eminences. The guy at the repair shop where I bought the speakers started railing against my amp, saying it wasn't a "real" reissue (he's right, there are differences) and that "those POS reissue amps were going to ruin Fender."
He listed the (1) solid state rectifier, the (2) PCB board (instead of point-to-point) and the 1/4 in jack on the footswitch as if they were crimes against humanity.
He may or may not be right, but my amp still works and sounds great, 22 years, one set of speakers and a couple of sets of tubes later.
His shop is out of business.

Would I prefer things were build as well and as durable and as "cool" as 1968?
Yep.
Will it prevent me from trying something new/less durable/with a "lesser" design?
Nope.
Cuz every once in a while, a new product is ground breaking enough to inspire new things.
Kinda like those weird boat paddles that dude from California was selling...what were they called? Esquire? Telecaster? I don't remember...

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:37 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
The guy in the store did have it cranked. He was such a great player, nobody cared. If anything, it seemed like people wanted him to go on a bit longer. He had it to a volume much higher than a venue would want for mic'ing. Here in Vegas, it's very rare to play a gig where you're not being mic'ed into the PA. So in that respect, the volume handling of the IV was fine.

That kind of reinforces my belief that the Mustang II has a not-too-good speaker, which might be what makes it sound uncontrolled at higher volume. At least speakers are upgradeable, and not too expensive.


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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:00 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
As far as it lasting 30+ years or so, I don't see why not. You can still buy vintage digital gear that works.


Like what?

Your Radio Shack Trash-80 computer?

Sorry.

Your eight Y/O cellphone?

Nope.

The PLL digital tuner in your six Y/O television set?

Fat chance.

The microprocessor on the motherboard of your twelve Y/O Samsung microwave.

No way.

I made my living in electronics for over thirty-two years and I've seen it all come and go. And one of the few types of industrial/commercial design that's never been eclipsed by the latest fad is the vacuum-tube audio amplifier. And of those, Leo Fender's were among the best.

ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE.

And I'll be happy to wager a crisp new C-note that your trendy POS doesn't last longer than a new domestically-made automobile.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:59 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Jah Soldier wrote:
As far as it lasting 30+ years or so, I don't see why not. You can still buy vintage digital gear that works.


Like what?

[chop]

The microprocessor on the motherboard of your twelve Y/O Samsung microwave.

No way.

I made my living in electronics for over thirty-two years and I've seen it all come and go.


Then you should know that you can still buy Z80 and MC68k CPUs. In the embedded world, having to support products for 20+ years is not unheard of.
Should the CPU in your Roland Jupiter 8 from the early 80s go bad, a new one will cost you a little over four bucks. 40-pin DIP package and all.


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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:06 pm
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I already gave one example. To go back 25-30 years one only has to go back to the 80's. Are you saying that there is no working music gear left from the 80's? I gave an example of the Yamaha DG series which were made in the 80s and still going strong. Amps, keyboards, processors, etc. there's still a ton of good working SS and digital gear around from that era.

Whether you still like those products or not are your business. But the fact remains, a good number have lasted.

If you don't like the Mustang series, all power to you, but you have no REAL basis to comment on their longevity. Someone could play it twice and throw it in a closet for 30-years, and there it would be. 30-years later. Where's your opinion then?

There was a time when I worked at a Sears parts department. People would come in all of the time for parts for their washing machines, or dryers, or refrigerators, etc. and when we would give them the right answer and part as to what they needed to fix their problem, you know how many times I heard "NO IT ISN'T!! I'm an ENGINEER, and I know this isn't the right part!!!" Ugh.. I don't miss those days at all.

So, without any disrespect, it's hard for me to take your word concerning a piece of gear solely based on the fact that you have worked on electronics. You still have no facts to back up your opinion.

It's ok to hate a product and not want it. It's ok to have the opinion that you don't think it will last. As long as we have an understanding that it is only opinion that we're dealing with.

Because in a "factual" sense, as long as there are Yamaha DG amps out there still working, the longevity game is still going concerning amps (of any type) built within the same time period isn't it?

I appreciate your input. Love the discussion so far. Nice thread.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:14 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
So, without any disrespect, it's hard for me to take your word concerning a piece of gear solely based on the fact that you have worked on electronics. You still have no facts to back up your opinion.


Then take my hundred-dollar bet, cupcake.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:24 pm
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I don't own a Mustang IV yet.

You never gave a real time period anyway. Without a specific time period, there could be no winner.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:27 pm
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"And I'll be happy to wager a crisp new C-note that your trendy POS doesn't last longer than a new domestically-made automobile."


Let's call it eight years.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:35 pm
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You don't think a Mustang IV will last even 8-years?? That's a bold statement. I'm pretty careful with my gear. You sure you wanna do that?


Keep in mind, I meant no disrespect. I've been a woodworker for 25-years, but I try to steer clear on my opinions of "Tone woods, and their affect on guitars". Simply being a woodworker, and having worked with numerous types of woods (certainly all typically used for guitars), doesn't make me expert enough to give facts concerning that kind of scenario.

8-years??
That's a tempting bet.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:43 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
You don't think a Mustang IV will last even 8-years?? That's a bold statement. I'm pretty careful with my gear. You sure you wanna do that?


I never jest with money.

I'll arrange for someone to hold our wagers -- perhaps Brad or Rob, if either are amenable to performing the duty, and either is acceptable to you.

Take the bet or get off the pot.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:57 pm
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Like I said, I don't own a Mustang yet. When the time comes, maybe we'll discuss it then. And for the record, I don't succumb to peer pressure, so that attitude won't work with me. There are others on here who already own one, I'm sure you're willing to make one of them the same bet as well right? I mean.. If you must make a wager right away.

I can't wager on something I don't own yet.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:59 pm
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And there you have it. Even better. If you're so sure, then you could get paid in less than 4-years quicker.

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Post subject: Re: Did I REALLY just hear that??
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:00 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
I can't wager on something I don't own yet.


You let me know publically on this forum when you're ready and I'll make the necessary arrangements for an impartial overseer to monitor the moneys.

As for superkid, he is not an adult and I will never wager with a child. If/when he attains the age of majority and still wishes to bet, I'll be more than happy to accommodate him.

Arjay

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