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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:57 am
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I am glad they caught the counterfeiters. But at the same time the article mentions these instruments sell for up to $54,000. Does anyone really have that kind of money to spend and would not have it appraised by a pro if they could not spot a fake from 50 yards away?

I guess it is no different then if some idiot spent $50,000 for a wrist watch only do discover later it says "Rolox" on the face :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:33 am
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ebaysux wrote:
I guess it is no different then if some idiot spent $50,000 for a wrist watch only do discover later it says "Rolox" on the face :mrgreen:


The Tijuana-made knock-offs are marked "Raulex".

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:11 am
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JamGuy wrote:
I get that counterfeiting is wrong but like many have said, the bigger crime is passing a fake off as real which I'd never do.

no, the bigger crime is buying them, because if nobody was buying .... nobody would be selling. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:46 am
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Has anyone thought of it this way? If so much fake product can be produced throughout the world of a quality that can fool so many of us, maybe the real things are greatly overpriced? If there wasn't so much profit margin, there wouldn't be so many counterfeits that can reap a good profit. To say it another way, there are a lot of fake Polo shirts, but no KMarts. Both have similar manufacturing costs, and might be made by the same person in the same sweatshop. Another way to put it: China doesn't make fake BMW's only because they can't, but they have millions that can whip out very convincing guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:05 am
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strings10927 wrote:
JamGuy wrote:
I get that counterfeiting is wrong but like many have said, the bigger crime is passing a fake off as real which I'd never do.

no, the bigger crime is buying them, because if nobody was buying .... nobody would be selling. :idea:


Fair enough... I'm willing to admit that I shouldn't have purchased it but curiosity got the better of me.


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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:15 am
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tvr1979 wrote:
Has anyone thought of it this way? If so much fake product can be produced throughout the world of a quality that can fool so many of us, maybe the real things are greatly overpriced? If there wasn't so much profit margin, there wouldn't be so many counterfeits that can reap a good profit. To say it another way, there are a lot of fake Polo shirts, but no KMarts. Both have similar manufacturing costs, and might be made by the same person in the same sweatshop. Another way to put it: China doesn't make fake BMW's only because they can't, but they have millions that can whip out very convincing guitars.


I want to be clear that the quality of these guitars would fool only the most novice amongst us... they require a TON of setup work, a lot of the details that make a Gibson a Gibson are wrong, and one look at the electronics inside and almost anyone would know that something was up. I'd agree that I think many Gibsons are over priced, a trend that Fender seems inclined to follow. You can get a nice Squier model or Epiphone for about the same price as one of these cheap-os and you'd probably be better off doing so. I'm never going to drop $3000 for a Les Paul Custom but for live gigs where I would be terrified to bring a $3000 on stage with me, now I have this little beater.

Again, interesting thread. I had a lengthy discussion with my girlfriend trying to justify the guitars purchase. She's of the opinion that I shouldn't have bought it... but she says that about every new guitar purchase! :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:40 pm
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I've had quite a few Chibsons in my hands lately.
Gotta say they ain't too far off the mark. Hardware is sloppy but the playability is spot on.

I fixed the headstock on a Junior (genuine) for a friend and got paid with this Chibson. That was broken (headstock again). I fixed it up and gave it to our singer.

Here is the Chibson (not a Billy Joe, a Billy Faux) as I got it. Note not one, but two scarf joints, less than two inches apart).
Very badly repaired. Grip Fill and a couple of screws through the neck coming out through the back edge of the nut.

Image

I dug the screws out, eventually. Then had to re-break the neck and plane the grip fill off. Not a job I ever want to do again.
But it looks nice now.
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(sad Chewbacca face)

Then onto this after a bit of a spray up.

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It's since had a lightning bolt bridge and a NTune pot put in it. It's his main gigging guitar.

A friend has a Chinese fake Epiphone Les Paul Custom in Silverburst that he prefers to his Gibson LP Custom. But I think that is down to weight.

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:22 pm
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You're either makin' it or fakin' it.

I'll never own or play a knock-off.

Period!

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:40 am
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[quote="JamGuy"] I'm never going to drop $3000 for a Les Paul Custom but for live gigs where I would be terrified to bring a $3000 on stage with me, now I have this little beater.
[/quote]

Only bringing a guitar you can afford to risk isn't unreasonable, but why does anyone need a fake pretending to be that Gibson Custom? Gibson makes affordable (non-US) guitars without stealing anyone's IP. They just say Epiphone on they headstock. And I see enough Epiphones on Palladia with guitarists far better than me, so they're certainly good enough for me.

Fender is even more accessible with MIM and Squier levels. It just won't look like a custom shop guitar. But we all know you should impress with the playing, not the name on the headstock.


Last edited by TimJB on Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:00 am
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Just recently I saw an interview with guitar-legend Waddy Watchel done in his home. Behind him on the guitar stand was a Squier Strat. I never would've thought someone of his stature played a Squier on clearly some kind of regular basis.

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:35 am
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There existed a brief production window some time ago when Squier was building what they termed a "Pro Line" Strat. They were exceptionally well-built instruments and remain highly prized on the secondary market. Perhaps Waddy's was one of those......

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:40 pm
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Jeff Healey was another big name who played a Squier.

I can't come up with any others.

Niki, have you ever played an Orville by Gibson Les Paul?

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:10 pm
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Granted I can not confirm what model squiers any of those players used or had, I can also say the earlier ones are pretty good quality, used essentially the same vintage necks with heel truss rod, and had the thicker neck base like a standard. I think the major differences was they used basswood only, smaller frets and of course the pups and electronics were pure Japan....but being the Japan stuff is not bad those older squires might have given the USA Strats a run for the money.

They are also going up in value...always get a kick when I see someone asking $700+ for a squire.

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:22 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
Jeff Healey was another big name who played a Squier.

I can't come up with any others.

Niki, have you ever played an Orville by Gibson Les Paul?



I guess by your username you have an Orville? I was curious about those. I have not owned a Gibson in a long time but recently acquired a 69 SG that needs everything. So when parts shopping on eBay I noticed these Orvilles in the Gibson listings and never heard of them. It seems like they are very accurate copies of Gibsons but say Orville on the headstock so not trying to fool anyone which I respect. I also notice they are expensive as all heck so are they that good of quality? If it is Japan they could be very good quality..I remember the old Ibanez LP copies blew the les pauls away at the time and were gorgeous. The inlay work was spectacular.

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Post subject: Re: Feds Seize Over 185 Counterfeit Guitars in NJ
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:09 pm
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Orville guitars were made and marketed in Japan from about 1989 -1998. They had a range of quality/price points. Those marked "Orville" were the lower end, those marked "Orville by Gibson" were the higher end models. The ObGs are about the best the Japanese could do (and used USA Gibson pickups) and really rival the US versions.

They were never sold officially in the USA, so they command pretty good prices here, even the lower end models.

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