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Post subject: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 7:32 am
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Hey everyone. I own a lot of U2 and Green Day CD's. And I've read the liner notes for every one of those CD's.

In almost all the liner notes, the songwriting credits are denoted as "Lyrics by Bono, Music by U2" or "Lyrics by Billie Joe, Music by Green Day".

When it says "Music by U2"- Does it mean that the band created all the melodies, riffs, hooks, harmonies, and chord progressions while composing the music itself?

In other words- Is developing melodies a large part of writing music?

Thanks guys!


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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:22 am
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hi Jericho-79, U2 and green day are nowhere in my music library. one of U2's songs was ok though. I can not use either of those bands as a reference point so lets use music itself.
"Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?" yes. there are different ways to approach the melody and use it within a musical piece or composition, probably as many ways as there are songs lol. "When it says "Music by"- Does it mean that the band created all the melodies, riffs, hooks, harmonies, and chord progressions while composing the music itself?" a compound question, a simple answer, yes. does that help? not likely. from a band members viewpoint a good band is usually on the same page vibe-wise so much that each member can contribute their part and it will all fit together "composing the music itself". that might not be the best description though, hopefully some of the better composers here (we have some good ones) will give you more usable info.

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:29 am
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Hi Jericho. Writing words and writing tunes are not the same thing. Sometimes one person does both jobs, but since long before rock and roll people have often divided the tasks of composer and lyricist. Sometimes composers take words from somewhere else entirely - a poem, say - and set them to music.

With a writing partnership such as Jagger-Richards we all understand that Mick wrote the words and Keith put a tune to them. Or Mick wrote words to a tune Keith had first come up with.

With the U2 and Green Day examples you mentioned I suppose the music side of the thing emerged from the group jamming together and tossing around ideas, so they don't want to credit just one of them with writing the number. Nothing unusual about that: many other bands have worked a similar way, at least some of the time, and their liner credits reflect the way individual numbers come about.

What's interesting about the particular writing credits you've cited is that as named lyricist Bono will get 50 per cent of the income from that song. He will also get an equal share of the other 50 % credited to U2, since he is one quarter of the band. So for that track Bono gets 62.5 % of the royalty - that man has a good agent. More usually, where everyone contributed to a song they are either all named individually or the writing credit is simply awarded to the band as a whole. By either of those methods each member gets an equal share. That's clearly not enough for Bono!

***

Regarding what you say about melodies: I think tunes - as distinct from chord structures, riffs and the rest - are something that's often much underrated by guitarists. I definitely include myself in that: I find if I work at it enough I can come up with useful chord arrangements, but a catchy tune is usually much harder.

Lots of excellent rock numbers don't really have much of a tune at all. Tunes are not vital, especially in guitar-based music.

Still, I do think a really strong, memorable tune is a fabulous thing, not easy to come by and much to be admired.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:15 pm
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Ceri wrote:
... a really strong, memorable tune is a fabulous thing, not easy to come by and much to be admired ...

Yes ... this is why the Beatles are still going so strong today (44 years or so after breaking up). They had an uncanny ability to write endless numbers of "strong, memorable tunes".

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:52 am
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Developing a "memorable" melody is an important part of successful songwriting, but no more important than a memorable chord progression, riff, and arrangement. The references you point out are examples of collaborative songwriting in contrast to individual songwriting.

Historically collaborative songwriting consisted of one person writing lyrics and another writing the music such as Elton John and Bernie Taupin. But it changes a LOT when writing collaboratively in a group. I would say the most common situation is someone comes in with a general riff or chord progression and some idea of a melody line and words. From there the full melody, lyrics, and arrangement gets developed by contributors in the group.

There was an audio file floating around somewhere of Paul McCartney and John Lennon working out "Hey Jude". It was clear Paul had pretty much developed the verse and chorus structure, and had the basic beginnings of the lyrics and melody. John was working with him to flesh it out. I'd say that's a very typical approach in most group situations.

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:41 am
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I think so. Pair a great melody with an even greater hook. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:41 am
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I'm just curious, guys.

In a band- Does the lyricist usually come up with a melody? Or is it a collaborative effort among all band members while composing the music itself?

Does it really depend on the band?


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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:31 am
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Jericho-79 wrote:
I'm just curious, guys.

In a band- Does the lyricist usually come up with a melody? Or is it a collaborative effort among all band members while composing the music itself?

Does it really depend on the band?


The latter. And I would think that in most cases, lyrics come last, or at least very late in the process. There might be a working title or the rhyming end of a refrain that exists early on, but seldom more than that.
If writing lyrics first was a feasible way of writing music, all the great poems from history would now have great songs to go with them. They don't, so it isn't.

If you want a hit, do the following:

1: Start with a I-V-vi-IV chord progression.
2: Create a unique riff, and add it. Do not skip this part.
3: Add a melody. Allow for at least two wails.
4: Add lyrics.
5: Chop any parts of the lyrics that require thinking and substitute a banal love phrase.
6: Play it, and add an intro and a solo where the singer is silent.
7: Add embellishments, like a flute trill if the lyrics contains the word "bird", or "mmm" and "yeah"s. Go overboard with hoo-hoooo-hoos and doowaddies if the song is simple.


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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:12 pm
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Jericho-79 wrote:
I'm just curious, guys.

In a band- Does the lyricist usually come up with a melody? Or is it a collaborative effort among all band members while composing the music itself?

Does it really depend on the band?


My vote is yes, it really depends on the band.

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:13 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Pair a great melody with an even greater hook. :wink:

+1
Never underestimate the value of a good hook, that's what most people remember about a popular song.

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:33 pm
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rudorama wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Pair a great melody with an even greater hook. :wink:

+1
Never underestimate the value of a good hook, that's what most people remember about a popular song.


Indeed.

It's what's known as an "ear worm".

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:03 am
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Hehe I guess I am in minority, but I always write lyrics first :lol: Usually a melody and chord progression and whatnot pop in my mind some time later and I just think "wow, that would fit great with those lyrics I wrote" and I just take it from there.
I always have a vocal melody in my mind while writing lyrics, though. It just comes in naturally.

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:41 am
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Hehe I guess I am in minority, but I always write lyrics first :lol:

I have a notebook where I scribble down good lines on those rare occasions they pop into my head. Sometimes I then work them up into verses and maybe whole songs, without thinking about the music.

Then they sometimes sit around for years till a tune comes along that seems to fit, perhaps with a bit of adaptation.

Now and again, I've also found it can be productive to deliberately set out to write music to match lyrics. The words might suggest a rhythm, the mood of a chord sequence - maybe on very rare lucky occasions an actual melody. A couple of times numbers where the words came first have ended up being the ones I'm most pleased with.

After all, Elton John generally composes that way, he says. And a lot of the biggest most successful musicals were frequently written words first. And nearly all of opera. So it's not so unusual.

Though I must admit, with me, and probably most of us, the music comes first most of the time. I usually find it easiest to work on the Paul McCartney - Scrambled Eggs principle (though obviously with va-a-a-astly less success...).

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:46 am
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Hehe I guess I am in minority, but I always write lyrics first... I always have a vocal melody in my mind while writing lyrics, though. It just comes in naturally.


Same here! When I had an idea for lyrics (and a "theme" for the entire song), the flow of the words in the verse set the melody. By the time the lyrics of the first verse were finished the melody of that verse was already in my head, so then I'd go back and try to figure out a chord progression to fit that melody. Same thing for the chorus and bridge (if there is one). My solos normally followed the vocal melody with embellishments added.

For me, the lyrics and melody are like inseparable identical twins; they're "born" at the same time. I just can't imagine how someone could add lyrics to an already completed piece of music. You'd have to force the lyrics to fit a predetermined melody; it just doesn't sound natural!


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Post subject: Re: Is establishing melodies a big part of writing music?
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:37 am
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For me, it's usually either a riff or a melody that comes first, then I build chords around that germ of an idea. Lyrics are usually last.


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