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Post subject: In 1964
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 pm
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In 1964, one could walk into a music store and pay $69.00 for a Fender Champ. For that price they would walk out with an American made, hand wired, all tube, solidly constructed, guitar amplifier. The quality would likely be every bit as good as many modern 'boutique' amps.

An on line inflation calculator, based on the CPI, tells me that $69.00 in 1964 dollars has the same buying power as $527.68 in 2014 dollars. Still not a bad deal but not looking quite as good.

However, can we trust the on line inflation calculator? In 1964 a Kennedy half dollar weighed 12.5 grams and was 90% silver. It would take 138 of those half dollars to buy the Champ (assuming full retail was paid) and that would amount to 54.76 ounces of silver if my calculations are correct. Today, the price of silver closed at $19.77/oz. which gets our Champ price close to $1100.00. Now that Champ amp is looking a bit pricey.

The Dual Showman in 1964 was $915.00.

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:34 pm
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Inflation calculators only tell you overall buying power--some things come down in price, others rise more sharply, some more slowly.

For example, when I was in high school the guitar strings I liked were about $10 a set-several years later they were $5, and now they're about $6.
But If I put $10 in an inflation calculator that $10 won't come out as $6, but a higher amount.

So use them with a grain of salt and knowing it's overall buying power they account for.

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:36 pm
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Funny thing about those blackface Champs and Showmans......

Most of them are still around.

How many other consumer products built in 1964 are still earning their keep?

If nothing else, Leo built them to last.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:44 am
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zontar wrote:
Inflation calculators only tell you overall buying power--some things come down in price, others rise more sharply, some more slowly.

For example, when I was in high school the guitar strings I liked were about $10 a set-several years later they were $5, and now they're about $6.
But If I put $10 in an inflation calculator that $10 won't come out as $6, but a higher amount.

So use them with a grain of salt and knowing it's overall buying power they account for.

Agreed, don't take my numbers to seriously.

Some thing go up in price and other things come down. The computational power in a cheap Mustang amp would have filled large rooms in 1964 and cost millions.

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:53 am
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mhowell wrote:
However, can we trust the on line inflation calculator?

Hi mhowell: that's a crucial issue for this type of discussion.

Cash is problematic for making these sorts of comparisons, and so economists often try to find some other quantifier. Loaves of bread, or pints of milk - or Mars bars are a very popular unit of currency for comparing changing values over time. Find out how many Mars bars (or Hershey bars, or whatever) it took to buy the amp in 1964 and how many it takes now, and you can see whether it has gone up or down in relative terms.

Of course, the most meaningful comparison is with median income. What proportion of an average month's income did it take to buy the amp in 1964 and what proportion now? By that measure you are sure to find the amp - and most other things - have come way down in price over the decades.

I entirely agree with the wider point. There are not so many manufactured products where a pinnacle was achieved half a century ago and is still going strong today. Very cool. :)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:34 pm
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In 1964, I was in my very first band and I could not afford a Fender guitar or a Fender amp. I've got them now (and many times over), but it just ain't the same. Such is life.

I bought my first Fender guitar, a Telecaster special factory order, in 1971, just back from Vietnam.

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:57 pm
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CRGuitarMan wrote:
I bought my first Fender guitar, a Telecaster special factory order, in 1971, just back from Vietnam.


In 1969 I ordered a guitar from the PX at CRB, Dennis. It was supposed to be a Dakota Red Strat but apparently the order got SNAFU'd and it ended up being a Tele. Or else some FNG who ordered a red Tele got my Strat instead.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:34 pm
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In 66 minimum wage when I started working was $1.25/hour. Saw Rolling Stones that summer and 3rd row seats cost me $4.50 (Beatles year before were $6). Bought a 59 Gretsch double anni for $150 with case. It's how many hours you had to work to get something, not the amount of dollars. In 50 years who knows what sort of things might seem like a bargain from this time.


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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:26 am
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One thing I take away from this is that all pre-cbs Fender products, even their lower end stuff, was built to a high standard. Mr. Fender would do what he could to save money but not if it sacrificed the standard. I wouldn't hesitate to assert that Fenders student products back then were higher quality that modern professional gear.

On the flip side there was a lot of pure crap from those times. Imagine a high voltage tube amp with no input transformer! Manufacturers actually put out deadly products like that. We might complain about the tacky build of some cheap amps these days but at least they won't kill you.

Cheers,

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:12 pm
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Ah yes - revisiting 1964 in a parallel universe....



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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 10:44 pm
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Ceri wrote:
mhowell wrote:
However, can we trust the on line inflation calculator?

Hi mhowell: that's a crucial issue for this type of discussion.

Cash is problematic for making these sorts of comparisons, and so economists often try to find some other quantifier. Loaves of bread, or pints of milk - or Mars bars are a very popular unit of currency for comparing changing values over time. Find out how many Mars bars (or Hershey bars, or whatever) it took to buy the amp in 1964 and how many it takes now, and you can see whether it has gone up or down in relative terms.

Of course, the most meaningful comparison is with median income. What proportion of an average month's income did it take to buy the amp in 1964 and what proportion now? By that measure you are sure to find the amp - and most other things - have come way down in price over the decades.

I entirely agree with the wider point. There are not so many manufactured products where a pinnacle was achieved half a century ago and is still going strong today. Very cool. :)

Cheers - C


1964 was a good year, eh? :D


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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:24 am
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DonX14 wrote:
Ah yes - revisiting 1964 in a parallel universe....


That was a strange, but very well done, mash up. How were the vocals done?

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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:00 am
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Emster 23 wrote:
In 66 minimum wage when I started working was $1.25/hour. Saw Rolling Stones that summer and 3rd row seats cost me $4.50 (Beatles year before were $6). Bought a 59 Gretsch double anni for $150 with case. It's how many hours you had to work to get something, not the amount of dollars. In 50 years who knows what sort of things might seem like a bargain from this time.


It's not the income that matters, but how much of it is left after paying taxes, health insurance, rent and mortgages, utility bills and other forced expenses. How big a chunk an amp would be out of a median person's expendable income probably has changed less than one would think.

Also, back then people saved for stuff. These days, few people save (pension gambling and health savings accounts not considered, cause you can't buy an amp for that) - the cash worth of a typical American is negative these days.

So even with higher income, it's not certain that Average Joe is in a better position to buy an amp than his grandfather was in the 60s.


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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 5:04 am
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mhowell wrote:
DonX14 wrote:
Ah yes - revisiting 1964 in a parallel universe....


That was a strange, but very well done, mash up. How were the vocals done?

Aussie covers band - The Beatnix


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Post subject: Re: In 1964
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:59 am
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I was 11 years old :roll:


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