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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:18 am
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While there are shredders who can keep my attention for a whole song (Joe Satriani and Eddie Van Halen, for example), those particular players figured out that dynamics, spacing and melody are more important than 8000 32nd notes at 300 bpm...and I have to admit, neither of those guys fall anywhere close to my "favorite player" category, they just play songs I can generally stand.

Most of them, as I stated earlier, are just stuntmen and stuntwomen, and I'm just not that interested.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:36 am
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What's the old saying? It's not the notes, but the spaces in between that matter? Listening to a guitarist "shred" is like sitting next to a teenage girl who just yammers on non-stop about nonsense. No thanks. Fast runs, and passages? Sure. That's about dynamics. However, if you start a solo at a clip and never let up until the end all you've done is bore me.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:55 am
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I agree that fast playing in a performance setting is a demonstration more of technical capacity and less of musical competence. However, anything done right and not overdone can be impressive.

But too much of anything is bad. When I see or hear constant fast playing, listening fatigue sets in really quick. And that's worse than boring music. It rattles and get under the skin and on the nerves.

That being said, I think the ability to play fast, whether used in a performance setting or not, should be beneficial to one's overall skill. Does that make sense?

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:22 am
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Absolutely. Everything has it's time and place. The mark of a good artist in my opinion is ability and the knowing when to use it. What you are talking about in terms of the people who get referred to here in a negative light are people who have the ability, but no concept of how and when to apply it tastefully. Unfortunately, these people have legions of follower who are impressed by mechanical skill and not necessarily by artistry. (Though as others have pointed out there are those who are able to do this often and it not be tasteless, though I still don't care to listen to them) The skill is impressive and an excellent tool to have. However, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. In my opinion, anyhow.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:46 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Duane Allman's "Southbound"......now that's real art.

I totally agree.

Though it has to be said, Duane may not have played at shredding speeds, but he was often a brilliantly clean and accurate player.

A great lesson of musicianship is that a passage executed cleanly at 70 mph is not only more accurate but sometimes actually sounds faster than the same passage done sloppily at 90 mph.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:49 am
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I'm playing with some guys at the moment and I guess this is sort of related. The part of the song with my solo in called for something slow and overdriven, which is cool that's right up my street. The problem is the bassist and keys players are both better musicians and also better guitarists than me. So they keep trying to take my slow solo and add a million notes to it pointlessly to the point where it doesn't work in the song, especially considering the keys player is still playing an overindulgent keys riff through it so it all sounds a mess.

The problem is because my theory knowledge it almost none, the extent of my input is "that doesn't sound right" and they can come up with a million theoretic reasons why it works, ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually sound right. :evil:


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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:06 am
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TurboRaptor wrote:
I'm playing with some guys at the moment and I guess this is sort of related. The part of the song with my solo in called for something slow and overdriven, which is cool that's right up my street. The problem is the bassist and keys players are both better musicians and also better guitarists than me. So they keep trying to take my slow solo and add a million notes to it pointlessly to the point where it doesn't work in the song, especially considering the keys player is still playing an overindulgent keys riff through it so it all sounds a mess.

The problem is because my theory knowledge it almost none, the extent of my input is "that doesn't sound right" and they can come up with a million theoretic reasons why it works, ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually sound right. :evil:

It sounds like you need a new band. If they won't play to your strengths, then they aren't being good bandmates to you.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:33 am
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The only thing worse than a wanky guitarist is a wanky bassist, imo. YMMV, but the bass "shredders" do nothing for me. Give me a nice well crafted line that fits in the pocket and I'm impressed. Playing on top of the band just makes you sound like a d'bag.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:26 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
TurboRaptor wrote:
I'm playing with some guys at the moment and I guess this is sort of related. The part of the song with my solo in called for something slow and overdriven, which is cool that's right up my street. The problem is the bassist and keys players are both better musicians and also better guitarists than me. So they keep trying to take my slow solo and add a million notes to it pointlessly to the point where it doesn't work in the song, especially considering the keys player is still playing an overindulgent keys riff through it so it all sounds a mess.

The problem is because my theory knowledge it almost none, the extent of my input is "that doesn't sound right" and they can come up with a million theoretic reasons why it works, ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually sound right. :evil:

It sounds like you need a new band. If they won't play to your strengths, then they aren't being good bandmates to you.


Agreed. Record a little bit of next rehearsal and see if they agree.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 3:30 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Screamin Armadillo wrote:
TurboRaptor wrote:
I'm playing with some guys at the moment and I guess this is sort of related. The part of the song with my solo in called for something slow and overdriven, which is cool that's right up my street. The problem is the bassist and keys players are both better musicians and also better guitarists than me. So they keep trying to take my slow solo and add a million notes to it pointlessly to the point where it doesn't work in the song, especially considering the keys player is still playing an overindulgent keys riff through it so it all sounds a mess.

The problem is because my theory knowledge it almost none, the extent of my input is "that doesn't sound right" and they can come up with a million theoretic reasons why it works, ignoring the fact that it doesn't actually sound right. :evil:

It sounds like you need a new band. If they won't play to your strengths, then they aren't being good bandmates to you.


Agreed. Record a little bit of next rehearsal and see if they agree.


+1

The best musicians are collaborative, not competitive.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:12 pm
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What makes a fast guitarist truly great is the ability to play slowwww along with the ability for tuneful bends. The best blazingly fast guitar player ever is Steve Morse. Period.


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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:29 pm
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Wait, did someone just name a "best guitarist ever" ?

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:43 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
Wait, did someone just name a "best guitarist ever" ?

No -- I called him the best blazingly fast guitar player ever ... But on hindsight, I should have added "rock" to that list. So ... yes ... by a very long way, Steve Morse is the best "blazingly fast rock" guitar player ever... in my opinion.

For the "best" guitar player ever ... that is Steve Howe. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:45 pm
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01GT eibach wrote:
For the "best" guitar player ever ... that is Jeff Beck.


I'm so glad we agree on this!

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:31 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
01GT eibach wrote:
For the "best" guitar player ever ... that is Jeff Beck.

I'm so glad we agree on this!

There is a difference between "technical proficiency" and "favorites". It is true that Jeff Beck is my favorite guitar player of all time. To me, Beck will always be the best. But when looking at pure "technical proficiency from a rock guitarist", Steve Howe is ... in my opinion ... untouchable. He plays artfully and with a delicate touch, incorporating every possible corner of musical theory and knowledge of stringed instruments on the planet. And as for a "blazingly fast rock" guitar player, as I said previously Steve Morse similarly can't be touched ... with Yngwie, EVH, Vai, and Satch not even coming close.

But ... alas ... these are just my opinions. And opinions are like Ford Mustangs ... everyone has got one.
:wink:

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