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Post subject: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:54 pm
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It has been said, not by me, that a good guitarist should have no problem playing 16th notes cleanly @ 120bpm. [WARNING - being able to play that fast does not necessarily make one a good guitarist.]

Using speed tricks such as sweeps, pull-offs, hammer-ons, and double picking single notes I can probably fake playing that fast. But to consistently articulate, for example, a scale, at that speed is beyond me.

Setting a metronome to 100bpm I can get 16th notes with mistakes. I'm comfortable at about 90 but playing at upper registers slows me down tremendously.

I also have a hard time counting |1 e & a | 2 e & a|. I find it much easier to count |1 or e o |2 or e o|.

In all honesty this is not something that I've practiced and worked at. And at 53 years of age and decades of playing I'm not likely to start. However, some of you younger more dedicated folks should start working on it. When you get to 16th notes @ 120bpm post a demo.

Cheers,
:P

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:21 pm
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I'll records something shortly to illustrate 16ths but for now I'll post the lovely Yolanda Charles (again!) illustrating how to count and do backing vocals at the same time as playing.


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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:12 pm
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Lots of 16th notes.

https://soundcloud.com/gilgafrank/16s/s-rMOmC

Sloppy playing because it's just off the top of my head but that's how they sound. Listen for the hihat, that plays 16s all the way through apart from the fills. There's a chuggy guitar just playing a damped E chord in 16s too.

The trick to playing faster is to just concetrate on playing accurately (more accurately than I played that!) at first. Get the notes right first and speed only comes with a lot of practice.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:41 pm
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I couldn't give a quibbling fart about how quickly and cleanly someone can play, unless they can "move me" with that playing.

Technical prowess without emotional depth is not art, it's a stunt.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:22 pm
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Rather than listening to high-speed continuous 16th notes, you'd be better off identifying familiar riffs that make some use of 16ths. The best known example would be the first six notes of the riff from Layla. If you count like this through the sone ...

1-a-and-a
2-a-and-a
3-a-and-a
4-a-and-a

.. then you'll hear the riff starting on the AND after the 3.

Fleetwood Mac's Oh Well would be another good example, that one starts with just three 16s, E - G - E starting on the "a" after the 4.

Or the repeated open E string on Led Zeppelin's Communication Breakdown.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:22 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
I couldn't give a quibbling fart about how quickly and cleanly someone can play, unless they can "move me" with that playing.

Technical prowess without emotional depth is not art, it's a stunt.

...hence my warning.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:02 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
Technical prowess without emotional depth is not art, it's a stunt.


+1

Yngvie is a stuntman.

But Duane Allman's "Southbound"......now that's real art.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:08 pm
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I'm with Matt on this one. Parlor tricks rarely get a guitarist a gold or platinum record. Self indulgence is off putting. Little Wing is a beautiful much loved song because it was written I think to be heard, by a very good guitarist. And has been covered by many so called virtuoso's all of whom had to slow down their playing to get it right lol. The majority of them have not had a hit like that one and most likely won't unless they start caring about the listener, not themselves. Am I being too harsh? Should I just have said "ok play as fast as you can, someone may enjoy that."

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:26 pm
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I'm impressed more with players who use dynamics and sometimes know when not to play. Steve Cropper was a big
influence on me.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:47 pm
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Speedy playing such as Yngwie Malmsteen tosses off doesn't impress me any more than Justa Beaver does-it's just all show and completely void of emotion the same thing goes for most of todays shredders with the possible exception of Steve Vai.Guitarists such as Alvin Lee,Lenny Breau,Larry Gattin and Jimi Hendrix were able to play incredibly fast and still convey emotion and feeling in their notes,but they were rare exceptions

Back in the dark ages I was able to play pretty fast when the song called for it or when I just wanted to let off some "steam".Now that my hands have become atrophied-for lack of a better term-I have found more than ever that speed isn't really worth diddly in the large scheme of things.I've had to completely rethink my approach to playing and now because I've slowed down by about 80% I have to try and make each note count and I try to play each note and put as much feeling into it,as if it was the only note that the audience was going to hear.I try to put just the right amount of vibrato in each bend and have moved down to .007-.038 strings so that I can do much deeper Buddy Guy type bends and also try to be more exact with my harmonics.It takes a lot of repetition,disipline and concentration to achieve really precise playing,but it really is very rewarding when you can notice the improvement in your style.

Shredding is most likely just a passing fad like big hair and I believe that young guitarists would be much better off if rather than playing machine gun fire fast riffs,they try to concentrate on precision and passion in their playing-that has always impressed audiences and always will.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:06 pm
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I no longer have the article that discussed the 16th notes @ 120bpm. It was decades ago in an article in Guitar Player magazine. That particular speed always stuck in my head.

The gist of the article was that a guitarist should be able to play fast and never implied that a guitarist must play fast all the time. BTW, the 16th notes @ 120bpm was suggested as a minimum and I think the author was a classical guitarist. Again, to be clear, the discussion was about exercises and playing scales. In the article the context was skill, not performance and I never meant to suggest otherwise. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:15 pm
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John Petrucci is unfuckingbelievably boring.

I think guitar solos nowadays are about how many notes you can fit into a measure or w/e. There are still many great guitarists out there, but I'm just gonna say that shredding is lackluster to me. It just wears out and you start hearing too many similarities.

I really like to be able to take really strong notes in, like the beginning of the first solo in Voodoo Child to give a good example.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:39 am
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JJ Cale is one of my favorite guitarist. I'm not sure if he ever even played an 8th note, let alone a 16th.

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:00 am
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mhowell wrote:
JJ Cale is one of my favorite guitarist. I'm not sure if he ever even played an 8th note, let alone a 16th.

:lol:

Yep. I agree on all points.

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Post subject: Re: playing fast
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:06 am
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Playing fast is a pissing contest to impress other players. The faster guys play [insert usual suspects like Vai…] the more I turn off and resolve never to listen to them again.


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