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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:15 am
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arth1 wrote:
I wish they had added Tacoma to the deal too - it's downright saddening to see a good brand being shelved like that. Why does Fender keep it? For patent trolling purposes?

It is my understanding (or misunderstanding if I am wrong) that Fender aquired Kaman to get some patents & processes for thin laminates for use in acoustic guitars and also an excellent stock of fine woods. Not to mention Gretsch drums; Latin Percussion, and TOCA. Genz Benz also came with the deal, and I'm sure FMIC would have been better off to have sold it straight away rather than keeping them alive through 'The Great Recession' only to shut them down earlier this year.


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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:28 am
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Reality doesn't = negativity. Fender is a business like any other, and they will do what ever they have to do to keep as much of the market share as they can. My comments weren't intended to slam fender, they were more my observations of the economy as it pertains to the music industry.
I hope Guild does great and returns to their former glory. I would love to see more Guild production here in the USA. American Guild acoustics are some of the most beloved instruments out there and have dedicated cult following.
Best of luck to all concerned....Didn't mean to ruin every ones day.
Later........Tom

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:48 am
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No argument on it being good for the Guild brand. The fact that it's staying US made (for now anyhow) is great. Fender bought up a lot of competition. Waaaaaayyyy more than it ever should have. A lot of really poorly thought out purchases in an effort to become King of the Hill on the international musical conglomerate pile instead of a great guitar and amp company. Hopefully, the new leadership will realize this mistake and try to get back to being a great guitar and amp company. Instead of just being a leaner, meaner, bargain basement low price, low quality version of it's former self. One can hope... even despite evidence to the contrary.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:54 am
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I hear you!!!! Focus Fender, Focus......Dance with the one what brung ya

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:01 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Hopefully, the new leadership will realize this mistake and try to get back to being a great guitar and amp company.


+1000

And let Guild be Guild!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:11 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Hopefully, the new leadership will realize this mistake and try to get back to being a great guitar and amp company.


+1000

And let Guild be Guild!

Arjay


Seriously, they did Guild a solid! They did to Guild what CBS did to Fender. Guild guitars were at one point a seriously fine instrument until the suits got em. I hope they get back to their former glory.

I look at it this way. When it comes to Fender, you can build your own amp and bolt together your own guitar too. It ain't rocket science. Fender hasn't been Fender for a long, long time. It's a shame. It might be a CBS 72 Strat, I'll keep it forever.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:19 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Hopefully, the new leadership will realize this mistake and try to get back to being a great guitar and amp company.


+1000

And let Guild be Guild!

Arjay



Agreed. While I hope Fender as a company learned something from it's time holding the Guild brand. (To be fair Fender's acoustic game has seemed to have gotten much better than where it was even 5 years ago) The reality is that I think Guild was stifled under FMIC. While I have mixed feelings about Fender's ownership of Gretsch. I think that has gone much better.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:40 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
(To be fair Fender's acoustic game has seemed to have gotten much better than where it was even 5 years ago)

Yes, but they're closing down the Fender Acoustic Custom Shop in New Hartford, so what good will that do? Will the now experienced builders pack up their families and move to Corona, Ensenada or China?
I hope that someone buys the old Ovation factory and hires the Ovation/Guild/Hamer/Fender acoustic guys who live in the area. Because I don't think it's the headstock stamp that is the important factor here, but the great guys who make the instruments.


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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:54 am
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I could be wrong on this but I think Fred Gretsch iii retained ownership while FMIC has distribution and sales rights

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:59 am
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456strings wrote:
I could be wrong on this but I think Fred Gretsch iii retained ownership while FMIC has distribution and sales rights



Which is likely why it's going so well. Perhaps there's something for the management at Fender to learn there. Just because none of them are related to Leo doesn't mean that they shouldn't show the company that same kind of care. If the management really looked at Fender as an investment in a legacy, and not just a way to turn a quick buck things would probably be much better than they are.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:13 am
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Don't know a lot about music man (EBMM) but I think they are still 100% family owned aren't they. They seem to have a good plan, stick to what you do good and do it good.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:39 am
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arth1 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
(To be fair Fender's acoustic game has seemed to have gotten much better than where it was even 5 years ago)

Yes, but they're closing down the Fender Acoustic Custom Shop in New Hartford, so what good will that do? Will the now experienced builders pack up their families and move to Corona, Ensenada or China?
I hope that someone buys the old Ovation factory and hires the Ovation/Guild/Hamer/Fender acoustic guys who live in the area. Because I don't think it's the headstock stamp that is the important factor here, but the great guys who make the instruments.



I think we might see a much smaller scale high end acoustic line come out of the Fender CS or Corona Plant in the future. I think the truth is that Fender is not known for good acoustic models. (Though surprisingly I have seen some really nice Fender folk style instruments) I think if Fender can roll some of the knowledge they learned out into production and up their game all over that will be good for the brand. I think you will find the market for high end Fender acoustics to be very, very small. Many people who swear by Fender Electrics still play other brand acoustics. Simply because Fender has never given them a reason to look their way. I don't think Fender is in any position to be chasing markets now. I think they need to scale back and concentrate on making sure their staples are up to snuff first.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:49 am
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It's kind of funny. Fender made cool looking but meh sounding acoustic guitars and still do except for the high end stuff they started building. They may have just used the craftsmen for design details then have them made overseas for higher profits.

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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:59 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Which is likely why it's going so well. Perhaps there's something for the management at Fender to learn there. Just because none of them are related to Leo doesn't mean that they shouldn't show the company that same kind of care. If the management really looked at Fender as an investment in a legacy, and not just a way to turn a quick buck things would probably be much better than they are.

Do I have to point out that Leo Fender didn't treat the company as an investment in a legacy, but sold it for a quick buck when he got a good offer?
I'm not saying that there was anything wrong with that, but Leo Fender was a businessman.


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Post subject: Re: Fender sold Guild !
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:10 pm
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63supro wrote:
It's kind of funny. Fender made cool looking but meh sounding acoustic guitars and still do except for the high end stuff they started building. They may have just used the craftsmen for design details then have them made overseas for higher profits.



Well, Fender acoustics. Even overseas models. Have improved. I can tell you that the newer ABG offerings are much better quality than the old used BG-31 I picked up years ago. (though to be fair a decent set of taped flats made that bass sound a LOT better) Still, the tuners were sh*t, and the bass felt "cheap" overall. That being said, I think you are spot on in your analysis of what Fender's goal was in aquiring Guild. I think they wanted to "Strip mine" the knowledge and talent out of that operation. I think they probably gave it as honest a go as they could have likely afforded to for a company with investors. However, Fenders decades of shoddy acoustics was likely far too much in terms of reputation for them to overcome. I'm sure they were putting out killer guitars. However, if no one in that market is willing to take the gamble then you aren't going to sell any. If you aren't selling. You're not in business. I think Fender wanted to seriously become a prescence as an acoustic guitar maker, but I think that always took a back seat to their more permanent goal of getting everything they could in terms of resources out of that company.

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