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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:43 pm
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[quote="Blertles] Which brings us directly t the cause of the second problem - why couldn’t we sell those other styles of guitars? Tradition.
[/quote]
In that case, and given the foreign exchange situation, they might have resurrected the Performer as an MIA product with a re-design of that dreadful spearpoint headstock and some tweaking of the electronics. There have certainly been plenty of nips and tucks of the classic models like the Jazzmaster and Jaguar to yield a variety of different designs based on the same platform.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:51 pm
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Yeah the performer was a great guitar. I'd love to see that again, but i don't want to see it made in China with crap electronics in a Modern Player bastardised format. To me, that would ruin the character. And that's what FMIC would do to the Performer. I'd rather it be left alone in that case :?

But as with the Jazzmaster, Jaguar also- they are perhaps a little more mainstream but never has been an attempt to release an "American Standard Jazzmaster" by Fender.. Like the Performer, I don't think Fender would be in a position to run with it right now & take a risk in this weather they are in :(

I see Gibson have made a couple of interesting & bold reissues from the 90's- the Nighthawk and the MIII. I think they do their reissues better- made in USA. They don't cheapen down their reissues and they tend to remain true to them by keeping to original specs, also adding fresh new updates. I take the Big Apple Strat, Roadhouse, Lonestar, Starcaster and the Telecaster Plus as examples of how reissues are done at FMIC

But back to topic, the online experience is a sign of things to come. It shows that Fender are prepared for a change of the way to do business if GC falls and they see it being a very true and real possibility. It will be profitable cutting out the middle man and the distrubiter and have a direct line to the consumer.. But the consumer will lose out to this. You won't be able to chose neck shapes in a store, or try many models till a guitar will choose you. To me, that is part of the experience (and a big part) of owning a guitar.
If ovation are anything to go by, EVH, Charvel, Hamer, Jackson etc.. Watch that space. I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold off in the near future. Not much seems to be coming from the Charvel Customshop anymore and their line is not containing anything worth buying either & they have nothing like what Japan or USA Charvels had.. Maybe in the long run, this would be a very good thing for Fender to do.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:27 pm
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Blertles wrote:
Yeah the performer was a great guitar. I'd love to see that again, but i don't want to see it made in China with crap electronics in a Modern Player bastardised format. To me, that would ruin the character. And that's what FMIC would do to the Performer. I'd rather it be left alone in that case :?

Agreed. It was my intent that it be an MIA guitar.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:28 am
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I still think the time is right for something new, and not just reissues. Just rehashing the past reminds me too much of the death throes of the Roman empire.
What's the last new electric guitar Fender came out with, and when was that?

I fear that there are too many New Economy MBAs who are risk averse, and would rather take a small ROI on the familiar than launch several new products, many of which will fail, but with decent changes that one might be a big success.

Then there's the problem with Fender buying up and closing down so many companies and growing so much that their main competitor has become themselves. Especially because they produce a hundred variations of the same. When the store has four guitars that's almost the same, one Fender USA, one Fender Mexico, one Fender Indonesia and one Squier, three out of four of them will lose, cause the buyer will only take home one of them.

I'd say look at the Performer, the Katana, the Showmaster, then make something new and exciting instead of reissues. Take a risk. Be a man. Instead of this slow oozing out and decomposing.


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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:45 am
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arth1 wrote:
I'd say look at the Performer, the Katana, the Showmaster, then make something new and exciting instead of reissues. Take a risk. Be a man. Instead of this slow oozing out and decomposing.

+1......It's likely that the Pawnshop series is Fender's weak attempt at crossing that line. However, those guitars are still committed to overseas production and have likely NOT caught the eye of contemporary players. Guess they have yet to find the right endorser. Too bad they blew their relationship with Joe Bonamassa. Though Gibson appears to be close behind Fender in top heaviness with respect to the Les Paul. Call it 'turn 'em upside down' syndrome.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:00 am
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I don't know. It must be different for guitar players. You guys get a lot of product thrown at you. Too many reissues? On the bass end we get a lot of rehashes, but very few reissues. When Fender does take a "gamble" half the time they are just lifting the competition's design. Which I find to be sad. First, The Precision and the Jazz have more than stood the test of time and continue to be perfectly relevant. Even Leo himself went far beyond that first P bass and the longer I play the more I think he got it right the first time. Stingrays are nice basses, but I'll take a single coil P bass every time. If I wanted or needed something different I'd look elsewhere, but honestly most other basses on the market are either just poor copies of low register guitars, or overly designed monstrosities packed with gimmicks and active electronics that do nothing but make them all sound the same and completely contrived.

Honestly, I'd rather Fender concentrate on perfecting what they do first. Making the best versions of their own instruments. Before they decide to fix what isn't broken. The market is flooded with P and J bass copies. Yet almost no one is making them to true vintage specs but Fender. That's what I love about them. That they still have the classic models that play like their predecessors. Not junky low end, or overly refined boutique knock offs that in the end don't play or sound as good as the real thing anyhow.

No thanks. Give me an American Vintage 51 P bass. Keep the Dimension basses and gimmicks. If I wanted to play an awful sounding bass I'd actually buy a Gibson.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:09 am
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Buxom wrote:
However, I feel like it just isn't worth the money unless you want a really common looking Fender guitar. I flipped through it and the color options are just about as bland as soup crackers.

The pickup selections are just as bad. I don't really think I'd order one with pickups if I could ever take that route. There's just nothing in terms of pickups in the selection worth spending that kind of money on.


All of that pretty much applies to Stratocasters in 1954. When the product gets established there may be variations and additional options, until then you get stock options, what's the difficulty here? Do you really want FMIC to invest millions in a project that may fail in a competitive market?

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:43 am
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I'll go back to the Stratocaster as well.

In 1954, No one knew what a Stratocaster was. Of course only "stock"options are all that's available. no modding yet and no pickup or hardware companies out there.

The Stratocaster has been around 60 years. I'm sure players know what they want now.

Why not offer better pickup and hardware options? Why not offer nitro and better colors?

The only reason this program will fail is from lack of expansion

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:09 am
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So ... you really want Fender to push ahead with an entire online custom build service like Warmoth has, just in the hope it'll catch on? Investment like that could bankrupt a company if the project fails.

It looks like a toe in the water, a sensibly cautious way to test if there's demand for a service by offering a basic level of custom options. Maybe it'll become popular, maybe FMIC will expand it, I certainly hope so. but you can't expect Warmoth-style customisation options from a new service.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:20 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
Do you really want FMIC to invest millions in a project that may fail in a competitive market?

I want FMIC to invest millions in many projects, all of which may fail, some of which will fail, and some of which will become successes, making more money than what the failures lost.
That's how successful companies operate - without embracing risk, you get stagnation and eventually die.


Last edited by arth1 on Sat May 03, 2014 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:21 am
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I think that's making some very large assumptions about how much spare capital FMIC has to invest in risky ventures.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:23 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
I think that's making some very large assumptions about how much spare capital FMIC has to invest in risky ventures.


How much spare capital did Clarence Leo Fender have when he undertook his risky ventures?


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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:25 am
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Buxom wrote:
I'll go back to the Stratocaster as well.

In 1954, No one knew what a Stratocaster was. Of course only "stock"options are all that's available. no modding yet and no pickup or hardware companies out there.

The Stratocaster has been around 60 years. I'm sure players know what they want now.

Why not offer better pickup and hardware options? Why not offer nitro and better colors?

The only reason this program will fail is from lack of expansion



For me, I get why people are saying that they are just testing the waters. That maybe true. However, why offer the "Vintage Style" at all then? These aren't "Vintage Style". They'd be closer to vintage style if they used the MIM Classic Laquer bodies. If the argument is that offering Nitro bodies would be too big a gamble. (which in reality is silly because they are production run parts anyhow) Then why go halfway? Really minimize the risk and just offer the Standard and Special wood and hardware parts, but expand the pick up selection. Those that are in the Special and Standard market are likely the majority of people ordering from this anyhow. Then if that's successful roll it out to the AVS line. Where there are players who are less likely to compromise because they are used to paying a premium for what they want. This market has been around over 30 years. It's proven that it's chock full of people who would rather pay more than compromise on the details.

Like I said, pay 1700 bucks for a 58 P bass in a downgraded finish with no vintage case candy and covers when I can pay 2k for the real deal? (I'm going to send an email on the wiring harness today, I think) When you're spending that kind of money what's the extra 300? Especially when you can pick up a demo model for cheaper than the ADE option. What good is the custom color if it's in poly? I hope this this works out for the people who want it. Some of it is a real headscratcher, though.

Also, I wonder what the plan for the restock are? I forsee a lot of modern style P players getting 58 and 63 necks and not being able to work with the wider neck. People just wanting to buy something "vintage style" because it sounds cool. We may start seeing a lot of these on ebay. Possibly parted out.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:37 am
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I really think there are a lot of people over estimating how much something like this really costs in a large lean manufacturing environment. Honestly, the ad campaign and website interface likely cost more than the actual change in manufacturing processes. All this requires is setting aside time in the schedule to run what is called exotics. All these parts are already stocked. There is nothing "custom" here. These parts would be made and ordered whether you order your instrument or not. It's just a unique build sheet with an order quantity of 1. Probably makes for a fun Friday afternoon, actually. Building instruments that are the same old thing week in and out can likely get old. Plus, closing out orders quickly likely makes the time seem to pass quickly. Then they just get rolled out to the warehouse and shipped via Parcel individually instead of getting picked and built into palletized lots and shipped freight.

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Post subject: Re: Good concept, bad delivery.
Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:33 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
We may start seeing a lot of these on ebay. Possibly parted out.


My thoughts as well. No one is actually getting what they want.

Good thing I have big hands, so I can grab some cheap fat necks. :lol:

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