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Post subject: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:21 pm
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So my band is going to be cutting a single (a and b side) release next month. It's been a few years since I've been in the studio, but am I the only one who doesn't care for it? Now don't get me wrong. I know it's necessary to get real high quality product for sale and for media outlets. However, does anyone else just find it tedious as hell?

I've done studio work before as part of a band for releases and honestly both times was disappointed. However, I will admit to that being our fault (the bands at the time) as we produced the records with only an engineer and ourselves. So, obviously both the technical knowledge at the time was not the best, and the engineer had zero grasp on what sounds we wanted and how to bring them out in the mix. I guess I'm one of those people who would always rather just put out live releases. I know the mix live even with a second board is never studio quality. However, I find the energy of playing live to be much more fun to listen to and to try and capture. Also, the tedium of the studio seems to kill any enjoyment for me.

Perhaps this time will be different as I've learned a lot from previous mistakes and will definitely be very particular about the final product. However, I just can't seem to really get pumped for it like the rest of the band. Anyone else ever feel like this?

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:57 pm
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In a previous life, mid '70's, I had a eight channel demo studio outside of L.A. I had gone to school to be an engineer and knew several engineers at pro studios that would refer groups to me. The groups would all want to get their demo done for next to nothing, which would include me doing a full mix down that captured their vision in one run through.
So, I totally commiserate with you. Recording while the clock is running is no way to be creative and feel at ease. I know that when I work on my own projects I put way more hours into them than I could afford to pay if I was at a working studio.
My advice would be to walk into the studio with some reference recording that you could discuss with the engineer to give him an idea where you want to go with each song before you even do any recording. That way you may develop a team atmosphere with a potential goal in mind, and you may save a lot of wasted time and money.
Working in the studio is tedious, but I enjoy the process. It can be fascinating if you don't let the pressure enter the room.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:42 pm
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Both of their 53rd St (NY) and CT facilities and teams are excellent if you need a GREAT studio :

http://powerstationne.com/

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 pm
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My enjoyment of "proper" studio time (as opposed to home studio time) very much depends on the creative atmosphere in the control room and the professionalism of the engineer and/or producer involved. When you're working with good competent studio staff who know the equipment inside out then you don't lose time and creative impetus worrying over small details. I say this having once waited an hour for an engineer to even get a click track through the desk and into headphones.

As with playing live, the more you use a studio the better you get at doing it. I like to stand in the control room to do guitar parts, either with a long lead or a wireless link out to the amp in the live room. I find it a lot easier to hear my guitar parts in context when everything is just coming through the monitors LOUD.

Other than that, it's a lot of waiting around until it's time to record your part. That gets boring and kills creativity really quickly. Find something else to do, go for a run, take your phone and get them to call you when it's getting near time to do your bit. Being away from the action for a while means you come back and hear a huge difference.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:59 pm
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I enjoy studio time a lot. I've learned a lot more while being in a studio than just playing live - especially those small details. The creativity being killed isn't a problem since we have the privilege to record in a semi-professional studio for free, since the drummer's dad has it. He is a multi-instrumentalist and has had a lot of experience with recording with his band. If we wanted a tad better recording quality (and the difference not being heard by 99% of the people), we'd have to pay around 1000€ per recording day. And we'd get a sound engineer that we don't know, doesn't know us and thus doesn't know how to bring the best out of us and definitely wouldn't put as much attention and work to it as someone who's personally involved.
So I think the end result is better than what we'd get if we went somewhere and paid a noticeable sum of money. Being limited by the clock puts you under the stress, the more money involved, the bigger the stress. That does kill your creativity, I think. (Of course, I am not talking about those world-famous groups who can afford to waste hundreds of thousands of € for studio while sitting there and waiting for an inspiration). But the overall studio time can greatly improve your skills, whether they be how to get the tone you want or just general playing.

I also prefer recording while being in the control room and hearing myself in the mix. I usually still wear headphones as well, as I really want to hear the click track loud, but being in the control room is a plus for me so I can see on the monitor exactly where I am late or early, how late or how early, etc.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:14 pm
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One thing I learned very early on is that it's better to buy recording gear rather than pay for studio time. Of course everyone wants to buy another guitar, more drums, more keys but when you've built up a good little recording setup it rapidly begins to pay for itself, both in monetary terms and in encouraging creative recording and songwriting.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:13 pm
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+1 on having a reference recording to show the engineer the sound you want.

That goes right along with knowing exactly what you want as far as tone, mix, balance, final product, etc. and being ready to communicate it clearly.

Finally, be relaxed and have all your parts down cold.


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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:17 am
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I think that's a big part of it for me. I always go in and need one take. However, with both previous bands it turned into a fiasco. One with mistakes on another members part, the next with a lead guitarist who had to go back and over dub every little thing to get it "just right".

Plus, This region is pretty atrocious in terms of music. It's either metal and heavy rock, or country. So if you don't fit into those two narrow definitions then people don't really know how to deal with you. Which honestly makes little sense, but I'm not sure if it's that they don't know how, or simply just don't want to be bothered. You try to give them examples of things you're going for and they glaze over. Like if it's not out of Nashville or doesn't require heavily distorted strings and everything compressed to hell and boosted through the roof it's not worth working on.

I know how to get the sound out of my line I want. It's not hard. I play a P bass with no effects except some gain at the amp. I know how to mix down my line. I'm fairly no frills when it comes to what I like. Pure Fender P tone. So that's not a problem.

However, I've always seemed to find myself in projects with people who don't care enough to know how to take care of their own sounds at post production or as was stated above. At least communicate it. I've done some work on mixing down guitars since then, and eqing full bands for live applications however that's not the same really once you get down to the specific frequencies ranges. Outside of how to clean up and round out the bass and kick I'm a bit out of my depth.

I think should this single not come out the way we like and we eventually want to do another release I might have to start looking down toward the city as Mike suggests. If we get any sort of traction off this then it might be time to bring in a producer who has at least worked with the kinds of bands that we sound remotely similar to and might get what we're doing. Not that it's anything out of the ordinary, at all.

Yeah, I think it's just a lot of little annoyances that add up to killing the fun for me. Because when I lay down demo with an acoustic and myself on vocals just to catalogue it in case I want to bring it to the band and work on it further. Honestly, I have a blast doing it on my own computer. I think I'll be okay if I can not let past experiences color my feelings toward this one. It's a new band. New studio. Just trying to shake that feeling, ya know? I don't want to be the downer. Where everyone else is pumped and I'm just kind of begrudgingly going along with it. It should be something exciting.

Thanks for the input guys. Sometimes it's just cool to talk to guys with more experience to put it in perspective.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:44 am
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My first experience in the studio was extremely dissatisfying.

To be honest, At this point, I was only in the band because we had this opportunity to record in a real studio (we had made some crappy home recordings with a Tascam cassette recorder previously). I had invested a year of my life (and drive many, many miles) rehearsing to play one gig and one jam session. The other/primary/lead guitarist had slowly but surely muscled me to the position of occasional rhythm guitar and harmonica (not too many solos on harp, either) and singing two songs out of 50 (even though we were originally supposed to have an Arc Angels-type setup--two lead singers, two lead instrumentalists, etc.). *Note potential problem #1.

We recorded at Luminous Studios in Dallas. The facility was brand-new, having been used only by (1) Ziggy Marley and (2) Polyphonic Spree at this point. We got free studio time because "other guitarist" worked for the ad exec who owned the studio (the owner had written hundreds of jingles and also had a hand in "discovering and developing" Robbie Van Winkle, aka Vanilla Ice). The engineer was happy to come in that weekend, because he wanted to learn all the nuances of the new board and controls (note potential problem #2). The engineer/producer had also never recorded a blues /rock combo (potential problem #3).

Also, he was friendly with Other Guitarist, whom I later found out had poisoned the engineer's attitude toward me. He was dismissive, arrogant and defensive whenever I made a suggestion or comment as to what sound we were going for (in total) or my personal sound. (Potential problem #4).

Potential problem #4 was lessened when I came in and had my entire rig set up in 10 minutes and was ready for a soundcheck. He also got nicer when he heard me (1) play harp, (2) play guitar and (3) sing. He said, "Wow, I didn't think you'd be that good..." To which Other Guitarist quickly hemmed and hawwed to cover up their previous conversation. He also became a bit less arrogant when he found out I had written or co-written 4 of the 6 songs we were recording for this little EP.

However, Other Guitarist was "in charge" and the end result was not as good as I would have liked it to be. I played rhythm guitar on five of the songs, but my guitar playing was removed from two of them (after I had left); the lead guitar parts of the two songs I sang (both played by Other Guitarist) were sloppy, too fast and somewhat mechanical, due to the fact that he didn't want to invest in the "inferior" product of my singing; one of the songs I sang was played so fast I was almost barking out the lyrics, in spite of the drummer and myself begging them to slow down (the drummer tried To force the issue and make Other Guitarist and His Friend The Bass Owner slow down, but they just played on even faster).

The songs themselves were good, and we were tight (because the drummer and I adapted well to what the other two were doing), but those songs sounded really rushed.

I was not told about day 2 of the session (the drummer, who is still my drummer and best friend wasn't aware that I had not been told about day 2)...they set upon an epic journey to record a Hendrixian masterpiece (note sarcasm font) that my drummer dubbed "The Drowning of the Ugly Clown." It was a mess, lyrically and musically. Other Guitarist has since become an excellent songwriter, but this early effort was not a good example. When Drummer finished his parts, he was politely dismissed, "We're just gonna do a final mixdown of the songs..." That's when they removed my guitar parts...it wouldn't have been so bad, except the so the were all written with two distinct guitar lines in mind, so the songs that my guitar parts were removed were very empty and incomplete-sounding (imagine AC/DC without Malcolm or the Stones without Keef, that kind of empty). The song my guitar was left intact was solely because the song doesn't work without the rhythm line (kinda like Honky Tonk Women or Highway To Hell) and Other Guitarist could not play that rhythm to save his life, even though he's the better guitarist between the two of us.

The production was poor, considering the cost of the venue and the equipment (the engineer repeatedly told us "this place cost over $3 million!" Very sterile, thin and lifeless--especially that one song I was forced to play so fast. If we had paid for these sessions, I would have been angry, because nobody--even Other Guitarist--was happy about the final result .

When the drummer and I left that group and formed the Screamin' Armadillos, we decided that we would rather own the studio than pay for someone else's studio...so we built Shotgun Studios in his garage (later moved inside when his stepdaughter left home). It's a decision we never regretted, and overall, our recordings sound better (especially relative to price--all of our equipment, after all is said and done, cost less than $3000)...they're more lively, rich and full. We also do our best to never exclude or diminish a persons role in the band--especially if what they're doing sounds better than what the original vision was.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:51 am
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Wow, man. Thanks for that. It's nice to know that people have been through similar things. I can definitely see the wisdom in going the home studio route.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:41 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Wow, man. Thanks for that. It's nice to know that people have been through similar things. I can definitely see the wisdom in going the home studio route.

No problem--what's sad is this: I was actually just glossing over all the issues! There were even more problems...

We spent the entire day and part of the night helping this engineer set up the recordings...I was the one that mic'd the guitar and bass amps, while our drummer mic'd his own kit!

The engineer was looking for a specific vocal effect (kind of a lo-fi singing-through-a-telephone effect), and searched for three hours (again, we weren't paying for this studio time)...finally, I pointed out that I could sing through my harp mic (1946 Astatic 200S) and get the same effect...he got upset, and insisted it wouldn't work. It sure worked when I did the same thing a year later at Shotgun Studios.

...and I'm just scratching the surface...Oh well.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:59 am
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:shock: That's crazy...

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:03 am
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I can understand your distress in going into the studio nowdays. It's not like the old days where you pretty much captured the base band performance then built on top of that. Now everyone goes in and does their thing individually which I think completely wrings every bit of life out of the music. Everything just sounds too sanitized with all the raw dynamics missing.

We recorded one studio album, which came out okay, but it in no way reflects the energy of how we perform. We now have a 16 channel portable digital setup where we capture the live performances and that will be our next CD. Honestly, that's what our fans want to hear anyway... out stuff the way we perform it with all it's energy intact.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:31 am
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dunedindragon wrote:
I can understand your distress in going into the studio nowdays. It's not like the old days where you pretty much captured the base band performance then built on top of that. Now everyone goes in and does their thing individually which I think completely wrings every bit of life out of the music. Everything just sounds too sanitized with all the raw dynamics missing.

We recorded one studio album, which came out okay, but it in no way reflects the energy of how we perform. We now have a 16 channel portable digital setup where we capture the live performances and that will be our next CD. Honestly, that's what our fans want to hear anyway... out stuff the way we perform it with all it's energy intact.



Yup. That's the way I wanted to go. Like "official bootlegs". However, I think the rest of the band kind of "needs" this in a more intangible kind of way, if you know what I mean. Like to them it means something more than just going in and laying down a couple of tracks. In the end, We're only doing a single. So even if it does come out fairly lifeless we're not out as much time and money as if we went in and did an entire albums worth of material. (Plus, it cuts down on tedium for me) If we're not happy. Then we can go the live show route down the line. (which to me is always cooler) If the band digs it then we can discuss getting the money together for a full album release should the single do well and get some local traction.

I'm definitely with you on live recordings, though. To me I could listen to live shows of my favorite bands and nothing else and be completely happy. Same goes for my own music.

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Post subject: Re: Going back into the studio...
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:44 pm
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Best of luck in the studio! I heard your music on Reverb Nation. I like your sound.


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