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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:51 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
You know there's something seriously amiss when you see Fender guitars for sale at Best Buy, Wal-Mart, truckstop gift shops, and Circle K's.

I am fairly certain that that would be in Leo Fender's spirit, bringing the dream to everyone.
If there was one thing the man wasn't, it was elitist.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:53 am
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Blertles wrote:
There's been talk on the Jackson forums about this and wether or not it will happen to them. Jackson USA production is very low compared to what's coming out of Asia. With a daily production of 10-15 USA Jacksons per day, one has to wonder.

If you look at present day 'stage presence', cachetic, spandex wearing, glammers, with big hair and pointy guitars have given way to substance, torn jeans, clean faces, short hair and relic'd guitars of assorted stripe. Hardly the stuff of Jackson's history. Such is the way of it.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:58 am
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arth1 wrote:
If there was one thing the man wasn't, it was elitist.

Would he have been in favor of dumbing down the marque with all the present low end themes and variations?

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:22 am
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I seriously doubt it, judging by his works after the fact.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:43 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
arth1 wrote:
If there was one thing the man wasn't, it was elitist.

Would he have been in favor of dumbing down the marque with all the present low end themes and variations?

I think he was more like Henry Ford, with few models but large and long runs to bring down production costs and sales price, without reducing profit or quality.
But he doesn't run the company, and I'm not sure that's the kind of angel investor FMIC is looking for :)


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:47 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
You know there's something seriously amiss when you see Fender guitars for sale at Best Buy, Wal-Mart, truckstop gift shops, and Circle K's.

I am fairly certain that that would be in Leo Fender's spirit, bringing the dream to everyone.
If there was one thing the man wasn't, it was elitist.


I doubt if his dream was to make his guitars and amps in China. He was making quality guitars and amps here in the states and providing jobs for American workers. The new production amps are pretty sad compared to the old stuff. Taiwanese and Chinese components, poor quality PCB's. Brand new models having annoying issues. It's a shame. I don't believe that's what Leo wanted his name on. He wanted his gear to last. I can't believe cheap materials and poor designs for short term profits was his plan. He had quality guitars and amps for beginners and professionals alike. My old Champ amp stands the test of time. Broncos, Princeton's, Harvard's were all practice amps. Well built and solid with the added benefit of great tone. My Champ sounds huge compared to some of the cheesy buzz boxes being produced nowadays.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:19 pm
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My response is that I think there are more important factories/plants closing elsewhere. :?


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:25 pm
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Really? Any plant or factory that employs people for a living wage is important. It makes no difference what the product is. It's important to the worker who's trying to support his or her family. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:33 pm
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63supro wrote:
Really? Any plant or factory that employs people for a living wage is important. It makes no difference what the product is. It's important to the worker who's trying to support his or her family. :wink:


+1

Perhaps having his job is outsourced offshore will cure such economic myopia.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:38 pm
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63supro wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
You know there's something seriously amiss when you see Fender guitars for sale at Best Buy, Wal-Mart, truckstop gift shops, and Circle K's.

I am fairly certain that that would be in Leo Fender's spirit, bringing the dream to everyone.
If there was one thing the man wasn't, it was elitist.


I doubt if his dream was to make his guitars and amps in China. He was making quality guitars and amps here in the states and providing jobs for American workers. The new production amps are pretty sad compared to the old stuff. Taiwanese and Chinese components, poor quality PCB's. Brand new models having annoying issues. It's a shame. I don't believe that's what Leo wanted his name on. He wanted his gear to last. I can't believe cheap materials and poor designs for short term profits was his plan. He had quality guitars and amps for beginners and professionals alike. My old Champ amp stands the test of time. Broncos, Princeton's, Harvard's were all practice amps. Well built and solid with the added benefit of great tone. My Champ sounds huge compared to some of the cheesy buzz boxes being produced nowadays.


I agree re amps, but re guitars, Japan and China has US build quality trumped right now if you factor in the price differential. Virtually every new non-CS guitar I've played recently has left me feeling 'So what?'. Conversely, I played a Chinese Gretsch and was blown away by everything about it, and the same for a Squier VM Jazzy. Great guitars.

I recently got an 09 LP Trad- the binding on it was shocking. Workmanship generally very lacking, so I don;t buy into the American quality/worker thing any more than than anything made anywhere else.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:18 pm
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I have a Gibson 60's Tribute Studio that's flawless and only cost me $850.00 I also have a 72 Strat, 63 Supro, A couple of Ibanez guitars, one being a AS73. It has lots of structural flaws but plays decent, a 57 Dano U1, a Martin OMC PA4 that flawless ane addicting to play and an old Yamaha 12 string. I've played plenty of Chinese guitars, some are great, some are crap period with plenty of flaws. I own a lot of lower end guitars. The biggest weakness for me is the pickups and hardware. There's just something missing. Personally, if you buy a new guitar made by anyone and it has problems, why bring it home? Way back the Mom and Pop shops I dealt with used to go over them. I have three big box stores within a couple of miles from me. Sam Ash, Guitar Center and Georges Music. Personally I like Cintioli's Music in Philly. At Cintiolli's I see way less problems with the higher end guitars Gibson included.

There's poor workmanship in everything. I don't live in China so I prefer to keep American workers and our economy working whenever possible. But we're all free to do what we like. That's the beauty of living here.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:21 pm
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I gotta agree with you there, anything from the east could have better electronics- but I can spend less on electronics upgrades than and extra $1000-1500 for a better USA model. To me, unless it's something really special- it's a no brainer :)

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:19 am
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63supro wrote:
I have a Gibson 60's Tribute Studio that's flawless and only cost me $850.00 I also have a 72 Strat, 63 Supro, A couple of Ibanez guitars, one being a AS73. It has lots of structural flaws but plays decent, a 57 Dano U1, a Martin OMC PA4 that flawless ane addicting to play and an old Yamaha 12 string. I've played plenty of Chinese guitars, some are great, some are crap period with plenty of flaws. I own a lot of lower end guitars. The biggest weakness for me is the pickups and hardware. There's just something missing. Personally, if you buy a new guitar made by anyone and it has problems, why bring it home? Way back the Mom and Pop shops I dealt with used to go over them. I have three big box stores within a couple of miles from me. Sam Ash, Guitar Center and Georges Music. Personally I like Cintioli's Music in Philly. At Cintiolli's I see way less problems with the higher end guitars Gibson included.

There's poor workmanship in everything. I don't live in China so I prefer to keep American workers and our economy working whenever possible. But we're all free to do what we like. That's the beauty of living here.


Deffo agree re the hardware and yes, there's variance.

I'm in UK_ we don't have your resource (unless it's Marshalls where we win and you guys lose!)

I guess market demand and labour rates will dictate this forever, as it always has done.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:49 am
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Personally. I won't buy a guitar sight unseen. I need to sit down and try to bond with it, examine it and put it through what I consider its paces. I listen for acoustic resonance, and build quality. The last things I consider is the cool factor and color. If it's there it's a plus. If not, and it plays and sounds great it's a winner. With used guitars all bets are off. If it plays and sounds great it's fine scratches and all. I don't shop by price alone. I build my own guitars too. Lately I have a problem with everything being made overseas while American workers suffer. I own two Chinese made guitars. The Ibanez AS73 and a cheapo metal body resonator that I put an American made Beard cone in. As far as I'm concerned when you take a low end guitar and put high end pups, hardware and electronics in it, it amount to having a low end guitar with high end stuff in it. I've done it myself and it amounted to nothing more than turd polish.

The question I have for the guys who talk about the lack of Gibson, Fender, Guild, Gretsch etc. quality, I've rarely seen it myself except in the really low end gear, but when you do, why do you take it home? Not trying to start WWIII. Just curious. Was it bought on line and a hassle to send back? Or did it sound so good that you couldn't part with it? I've seen bad stuff from everyone. I seen Martin and Taylor guitars have issues a little further down the road that were fine new.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:15 am
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I don't know. I just played an AVS 63 P bass last month and that line is still holding it's own. Ensenada is putting out some great instruments in the Classic Series line, and there are the different vintage "style" imports from China and Japan. However, there really is a definitive level of build and material quality in the US models. Not saying the others aren't great instruments. They are. Especially at some of the price points. Maybe it's different with guitars or just for certain players. However, picking up an AVS P bass, plugging it in, and playing it definitely gives you a different experience than the budget model. You can hear and feel it.

That being said, as the owner of a Classic Series instrument as well as my AVS. I can definitely say that my Classic Series P bass beat out the American Special. Not even talking money. I played multiple examples of both. Three different Classic 70's P's and over a handful of the Specials. The Classic 70's P's sounded and played better. They were also more consistent. Which was shocking. The level of quality and consistency on that model was excellent. At any price point.

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