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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:54 pm
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Keep in mind that this is not just about Ovation. They just go first.
Fender announced that they will shut down all other operations in New Hartford too, at yet-to-be-announced dates. This includes the Fender Acoustic Custom Shop.



Which is a real shame. Someday I really wanted to get one of those CS Acoustic Antiguas. Though, obviously a CS P bass comes first. Bummer.


Get it before they close that shop too.



:shock:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:13 pm
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Yup...I watched the same Ovation factory tour posted earlier the other day when I found out that Fender was closing that plant. Those guys are really proud of their product & carry a sense of pride in what they do as experts in their field. I really felt for them as I watched that video since those guys are the ones losing their jobs.

I agree that Ovations are an odd sort. Before I heard one plugged in, I thought they were just strange, but as soon as I played it & heard it using the on-board electronics, I was sold! I have a thin bowl Ovation & unplugged, I don't really think it cuts it, but playing in a band when plugged in, (as is it's primary function for me) it fills out beautifully (in my opinion). Glad I got mine when they were still available as USA made. To me, that still means something.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:46 pm
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Hardly surprising. I was in the market a while back for an upmarket acoustic than the one I had, I looked at Guild and they looked ok- but the price tag didn't see to match to the guitar. I thought they were Japanese made for the less-expensive models. I mean, we all know Guild are made in contracted factories that make one brand today, another brand tomorrow and they certainly show it.. yet they command stupid prices.

I ended up looking at MIJ product (Takamine, Yairi) that was made in company owned factories and the quality showed that. The price was on par with what Fender wanting to charge for their Chinese Guild product..

Ovations had some of the best necks I've wrapped my hands around.

But as with the other FMIC brands (as well as Fender), they aren't what they used to be. The demographic they appeal to has shrunk to a favoured few.. their marketing team must be full of old cronies. You only have to look at what they have done to Charvel to see what's in store for the future Stratocaster.. Same with Gibson for that matter- It won't be long until Gibson starts to shake its foundations too and Les Paul's will either come out of Japan or Mexico.. Mr. Jackson and Kramer are doing with their own lines, what FMIC & Gibson should have done to the Kramer & Jackson brands they both launched 30 some years ago.. To me, it seems that they have a choke hold on what they make, to ensure it doesn't cannibalise their other product lines that they sell in other brands.

Eg:Fender don't make a Decent Strat with a Floyd Trem, because they want you to buy a Charvel, despite the customer wanting a Fender Stratocaster. Forcing a customer to make a decision about what Fender wants you to buy, not want the customer wants to buy from Fender. That is one example, I'm sure there are others.. 'Want XyZ desirable colour? There's the Customshop..' Assuming the customer is wrong and herding our money where they bait it isn't a good way to do business. :roll:

This is what I see in the future for Fender- Mexico produces what is now the 'American Standard'. AVRI, American Deluxe, Select etc.. will be in USA, Customshop will expand to cope with their demand and will run more efficiently and have no wait times.. The USA factory will downscale in size. Chinese production will increase and more product will come out of Mexico also.. I'll give it all 10-15 years and this will be the face of it :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:00 pm
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Blertles wrote:
Customshop will expand to cope with their demand and will run more efficiently and have no wait times.

Funny man. They have turned it into Relic Shop, spending more time on faux aging yesteryear copies than building new exciting guitars. I see no great future for CS unless it's split into two, so there are dedicated master builders that don't just recreate broken dreams, but create new ones.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:23 pm
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I hate to say this but I could definitely see the AVRI, Vintage HR and Deluxe series instruments simply absorbed into the CS. Then the Standard and Special being absorbed into Ensenada. Then just split the artist series down the middle.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:40 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
I hate to say this but I could definitely see the AVRI, Vintage HR and Deluxe series instruments simply absorbed into the CS. Then the Standard and Special being absorbed into Ensenada. Then just split the artist series down the middle.


Nitro finishing, 22 fret necks, 'road worn' relicing... customshop pickups... It's happening now :shock:

Ensenada is blooming while Corona is downscaling.. They sell more from Ensenada than USA, so the solution to the fender problem would be to make USA specs at Ensenada for less cost and more profits.. The writing is on the wall. No industry is immune to it. Be it Mexico or the east.. The only challenge is convincing the consumer. Lol

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:55 pm
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I think when it comes to the vintage stuff (which is all I am interested in anyhow) it won't be long at all. As you said. If you look at the Ensenada Classic Series instruments they are definitely well made mass production instruments. By simply using more authentic vintage finishes and parts all around. (neck finish and electronics) They will have effectively moved the production line reissues there. Hell, the roadworn is a production run relic and the Roadworn 50's P bass is a hell of a lot of bass for the money. I'd consider it more bass than either the American Special and Standard. Though, I got my barely used AVSRI 57 for only a hundred more than a new RW 50's P. So honestly you can still get a hell of a deal shopping used on an American top shelf Fender bass.

When we finally get to the point you are talking about you'll have two choices. You can buy handmade Custom Shop boutique instruments or outsourced instruments. For someone like me I'm luckily just getting back to American Fenders after having parted ways with my old 78 P years ago. Honestly my 57RI could last me the rest of my life and I'd be just fine. My next bass will be a CS anyhow. I'm in the market for a first generation Single Coil P reissue. The only choices are import or CS. So they made the decision for me years ago.

Most retailers treat the CS like a seperate brand anyhow. Which is exactly what it'll turn into. Basically Fender as we know it will be the CS. And everything else no matter what it's called will basically be Squier. Sad.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:27 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Basically Fender as we know it will be the CS. And everything else no matter what it's called will basically be Squier. Sad.


+1

Tragic for sure.

It'll truly be the death of Leo's dream.

:cry:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:55 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Basically Fender as we know it will be the CS. And everything else no matter what it's called will basically be Squier. Sad.


+1

Tragic for sure.

It'll truly be the death of Leo's dream.

:cry:

Arjay


I don't know about that. I think Leo's original vision was quality, affordable, easy to produce instruments for the working musician. Ensenada is certainly doing that. (Well "affordable" can always be argued thanks to The Fed) I don't really think the Custom Shop has much to do with Leo's original vision. Maybe more of what he found he really wanted to do once the sale to CBS had wrought it's bitter fruit. The things he tried to achieve with Musicman and G&L. Only applied to his original designs.

Ironically, his own company is the one that created the boutique boom. All in an effort to satisfy the gap left in quality from when the sale happened. Had CBS managed to run Fender with the same quality that it had in the 50's and 60's the musical instrument marketplace might look VASTLY different from what it does now, and the custom shop wouldn't exist. So should this all happen we'll have both facets of the dream intact. It's a pity that it took outsourcing to get it.

However, the people of Mexico are good people and do amazing work. Any and all problems that come out of that, or any factory are a direct result of the failure of the process and not the people involved. Anyone with experience in MFG knows this to be true. So if people are complaining about getting poor quality instruments from China with lower quality materials. The people of China are not to blame. The company made the decision to use the materials, and decided that looser MFG and QA procedures coupled with cheaper labor would mitigate the costs of shipping and customs and still make them a killing. A product is only as good as the parts put into it, and the process that defines it. That's why the manufacturing environment is considered unskilled, and semi-skilled labor. The instruments coming out of those factories could be every bit of the instruments that are coming out of Corona. If they wanted them to be. However, they'd also have everybit of the pricetag. Because the cheaper labor costs would be dimished having to ship the higher quality materials in, then back out and pay tax and tariff on them.

The Custom Shop would be considered skilled labor, and therefore obviously something very different. It's a shop that basically runs nothing but exotics. Even it's production runs would be considered exotics by a real MFG plant. I think Leo might have appreciated it's place in the grand scheme of things. However, I think the fact that quality has seemed to have taken such a backseat in some lines wouldn't have made him happy. I think he was very concerned with delivering quality and affordability. Not either, or.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:10 am
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The water level anology as told to me by a friend over a dicussion of free trade:

Imagine the a large building, say the Astrodome, filled with water.
Outside the building, the water is only ankle deep.
What do you think will happen when you open the door?

i dont blame corporations for not wanting to employ Americans. We're surly, fat and likely to sue over just about anything.

Still, look at the people that did this (treaties) to us. The same people who swore to protect us and put our interests above all. We supported them and put up bunting, placed bumper stickers on our cars and shouted down anyone who opposed them. Friggin brilliant. It's not possible for one side to be clean, and the other dirty. They're both dirty!

I think one should own one's own business, get into an industry that cant be outsourced. Or, become a globalist, if one has the means. To get up and go to work, to pay for one subscriptions, say cable/satellite tv, smartphone, etc, is nuts.
Unless it's a write-off, one has no business owning a smartphone.
But, when the apocalypse arrives, on a micro or macro level, we'll all be staring into our smartphones, like it's some kind of oracle.
When Costco was being praised for starting its employees off at $11.50 an hour I did the math. $11.50 X 40 hours= $460 a week minus taxes, say 15% = $391.00.
Nothing. This is pathetic. And its assuming the employee is getting 40 hours. Costco may limit hours to avoid paying out benefits, I dont know.

Bail out, people. If you cant get hired, then become the boss. The future is going to be awesome, for those who can afford it. I'm not rich, but I aint carrying water for The Man either.


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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:22 am
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What ever political, economic, or social analyses you chose to use with respect to all of this, at the end of the day, the money wants a return on its investment and will do what is necessary to that end. Nostalgia is not playing a part here. That's why brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury and the like are history. Failing that, the money will seek another gambler, and sell their shares. That's their gig.....their ONLY gig.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:31 am
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Another observation, which piques my curiosity, is what appears to be a reduction in the number of posts across the range of Forums. FMIC' s corporate management decisions may just be killing interest by its customer base. The proverbial throwing the baby out with the bath water.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:43 am
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Anyone who believes in taking part of a system of violence (government) to keep them safe from people who have been allowed to amass wealth because of their use of that same system of government is going to end in anything but being sold out is a complete fool. Corporations exist because governments allow groups of people to mitigate their liability to natural justice through purchasing government influence. (Hint: Unions do the same thing. Just like churches used to.) The problem is you live in a world that has been built on the use of systematic violence. Standing around scratching your head wondering "What happened to the good politicians" or hemming and hawing about losing "Murican!" jobs is silly. Good politicians are the same thing as good cops, and good government. A damn unicorn. They don't exist.

In the end it's just groups of people arguing over the "right" way to control people like cattle. Which is pretty ridiculous. So until people start being honest about that and their part in it. Nothing is going to change. Right now Mexico is experiencing a booming economy. Much like the US in the 50's and 60's. However, Mexico's economy has already been sold to the IMF and they are already experiencing problems with inflation. They are going to end up in the same boat we are in. Why do you think all these giant international conglomerates are so interested in Africa? That's the next area to be "strip mined" of it's economic potential, and human and natural resources.

They will use your tax dollars, and the tax money of the developed countries to make in roads and "progress" to set up industry there while bleeding you and your friends dry. Then pick up sticks and leave you with the fallout. Then when they set up shop and start that economy "booming" they'll keep those people busy fighting each other over religion, money, government, skin color, or any other nonsense they can think of so they don't see the bottom falling out. Once that well has run dry. You'll be just desperate enough to let them back in the door for a little taste of that "progress". Same old con. 6000 years old.

Meanwhile everyone will be worried about who's dancing with the stars or what the latest gossip is about a multi-millionare who gets paid to play a childs game. Bread and circuses. Would you like fries with that? Thank you, drive thru.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:46 am
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Taurus wrote:
Bail out, people. If you cant get hired, then become the boss.


+1

When cutthroats throw a dinner party, if you don't have a seat at the table then you're on the menu.

The corporate machinations of a multi-national conglomerate hold no personal interest for me as I no longer buy products intended for the hoi polloi. But every day, thousands of working musicians find need for a quality piece of professional equipment that will both perform and endure. And right now I'm not seeing those products from the major players -- at any price point. Further out-sourcing to offshore facilities will only exacerbate this downward spiral into planned mediocrity.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Anyone seen this: Fender closing plant in Connecticut?
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:50 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Another observation, which piques my curiosity, is what appears to be a reduction in the number of posts across the range of Forums. FMIC' s corporate management decisions may just be killing interest by its customer base. The proverbial throwing the baby out with the bath water.



What? Are you saying that Fender continually trying to push knock offs of competition style instruments and putting tons of ad muscle behind them isn't resonating with people who are obviously here because they love the classic Fender designs and quality? Whodda thunk it? :wink:

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