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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:17 pm
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mhowell wrote:
This test is far from statistically significant and does nothing to challenge a genuine personal preference. However, it is good to expose the possibility that personal preferences might be influenced by false pre-conceived notions.


The point is that none of the "soloists" were significantly different from chance (in being able to identify the violins).

Did any of the soloists want to do 100 more trials? I wonder when they were told their results?

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:29 pm
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53magnatone wrote:

No way is a $700 Takamine going to sound like a $5,000 Larrivee, or any custom made acoustic..


That's a blind test I'd love to see. No pun intended.

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Last edited by mhowell on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:16 am
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^^ I for one did, not blind but had compared both of my Larrivee's, ( an L-10 and a C-10 )
both are really designed for fingerpicking, the Takamine model was similar to Glen Hansard's.
The Takamine was flat in comparison... To be fair, I was comparing two acoustics with very thin spruce tops, rosewood back /sides on one, mahogany on the other, to an acoustic that is meant to perform on a stage, is amplified. The Larrivee's cannot be amplified without a microphone as they neither have transducers or sound hole pickups...
Under amplification, there isn't a way to accurately transmit a high end acoustics sound spectrum...

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:13 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
I found some critical info missing from the Violin comparisons..
Were they playing Stradivari's that were Baroque instruments or were those of the modern design ? Ceri will know what I'm referring to...

Hi 53: without doubt the Strads and Guarneris had been converted to modern form (as have most). Otherwise, the blindfolded players would know what they were holding the second they touched them, which would defy the point of the test.

There was plenty of other information missing too. Any test that wants to be considered remotely scientific needs to publish all its perameters, so the experiment can be fairly assessed. In this case that must include the identity of the modern instruments: without that the results are meaningless.

For instance, nobody would be surprised to find that a Stefan-Peter Greiner, say, compared well with a Strad. On the other hand, if the old violins were being beaten by modern affordable factory instruments, well now that would be a shock! And very unlikely...

The testers' refusal to name the contemporary makers is coy and silly.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:20 pm
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mhowell wrote:
It is always interesting to see science challenge myths.

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"Ten world-class soloists put costly Stradivarius violins and new, cheaper ones to a blind scientific test. The results may seem off-key to musicians and collectors, but the new instruments won handily."


Thanks for posting, the equality police attacking classical instruments now lol.

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:55 am
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What's missing in the tests is repetition. Use the same instruments and same people and repeat the test the next day, and the next week, and see if the results are the same.


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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:25 am
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What's missing from all the retorts to test like this is perspective.

Back up for a moment and consider the price of a Strad. It is so expensive, most players cannot afford them so it's up to philanthropic patrons to do so, and then loan them out.

Tests like this have been done often, and the one I've seen the players PREFER the modern over the Strads, which is commonly what they're asked to do, pick their preference. If the Strads were worth the many millions asked and attained, surely the players would find plenty of blind tested reasons to make it a fair fight, and at least come out as 50-50 result.

No. The Strads lose almost every time.

This discussion came up on our local radio recently, and a violin principal was asked why this happens, and he said that you can't compare such controlled conditions with that of a real concert hall, and having heard a couple of Strads, they 'fill' a room like no modern violin can, In his opinion. Sounds like vintage mojo to me.


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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:54 am
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Heard an interview on NPR with one of the makers of at least one of the high end contemporary instruments in the test. What he did was get MRI/CT scans done on a real Strad and copied the Strads precisely using the highest quality woods obtainable and CNC and vintage style lacquers. This is something not really possible even 20 years ago. Next he did some tweaks of the original design, very minor tweaks. The "modern" violins used in the test weren't exactly cheap either and out of the reach of all but professional players or wealthy hobbyists.


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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:07 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
mhowell wrote:
It is always interesting to see science challenge myths.

Click Me

"Ten world-class soloists put costly Stradivarius violins and new, cheaper ones to a blind scientific test. The results may seem off-key to musicians and collectors, but the new instruments won handily."


Thanks for posting, the equality police attacking classical instruments now lol.

You're calling me the 'equality police'?

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:33 pm
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I'd like to see this test done with amps :mrgreen:

As for the strads, a major part of their sound lies in the type of spruce used and the climate/location of said trees. That itself is unable to be replicated. However extremely reluctant to believe hype on guitars, I fully buy into it with stringed instruments.

It's just unfortunate that professional players are unable to own them. Something that will soon apply to vintage fender/gibson guitars.

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:28 am
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mhowell wrote:
Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
mhowell wrote:
It is always interesting to see science challenge myths.

Click Me

"Ten world-class soloists put costly Stradivarius violins and new, cheaper ones to a blind scientific test. The results may seem off-key to musicians and collectors, but the new instruments won handily."


Thanks for posting, the equality police attacking classical instruments now lol.

You're calling me the 'equality police'?


mhowell, I liked the article. When I wrote "equality police" I meant there has been much equality bashing over the past several years and I am puzzled as to why everyone is concerned with others success and possessions instead of their own. You posted a cool article and it reminded me of some other similar tests.

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:28 am
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Blertles wrote:
I'd like to see this test done with amps :mrgreen:

As for the strads, a major part of their sound lies in the type of spruce used and the climate/location of said trees. That itself is unable to be replicated. However extremely reluctant to believe hype on guitars, I fully buy into it with stringed instruments.

It's just unfortunate that professional players are unable to own them. Something that will soon apply to vintage fender/gibson guitars.


Why unfortunate .... :?: If there are only 5of a certain pedigree then why would they be made affordable ( so to speak ). There is something to be said about being able to play a 300 year old violin that is on loan. I don't see this happening with guitars... Most 100+ year old guitars are unplayable due to the much more fragile construction compared to a violin...
I would love to be able to play a Guarneri or Stradivarius if only for a brief moment, but that is not ever going to happen.
I have never seen a professional quality instrument be available at Wal Mart prices... Electric guitars are an entire separate universe, really don't apply to the tonality spectrum of acoustic stringed instruments....
It really is about supply and demand... Fair it may not be but then again, I certainly don't want to hear a typical GC shredder playing a D'aquisto or D'angelico.... :shock: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: In blind test, soloists like new violins over old
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:15 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
Those two annoying blokes at Andertons did a few blindfold tests on Fenders. Not sure it was entirely scientific, given that the guy testing knew what the four guitars were going to be and really just had to guess which one he was holding at the time. And they're in the business of selling as many Fender guitars as they can. So perhaps they were slightly biased.

EDIT: disregard that, wrong video. I think the blindfold test was with Telecasters.


I know who you're talking about. I could be wrong, but was that the one testing between Squier, MIM Fender, and USA Fender? I seem to recall seeing something like this.

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