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Post subject: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:18 pm
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Hey folks, I don't post here much, but this forum was super helpful to me last year when I needed help, so I hope you can do it again. :D

I'll try to be as concise as possible.

I am a guitar player currently in the process of starting up a small jazz group, either trio or quartet. Here's the situation:

    • last week I hooked up with a bassist, who is serviceable, but honestly, not great -- he'll do for now

    • this week, me and the bassist are checking out drummer #1

    • drummer #2 – who is a monster player, and far superior to #1 – just told me in an email that he liked my music and wants to get together to see if there's chemistry (I am extremely flattered and never thought I had any chance with him)

    • I am really worried that if drummer #2 comes and jams with me and the bassist, he might be so underwhelmed by the bassist that he won't want to proceed with me, no matter what he thinks about my playing

By the way, as I am the one handling all the communications, the bassist knows nothing about drummer #2, and vice versa. Yes, I realize this all sounds like an episode of 90210 or something. But that's the music biz, isn't it? ;)

Hopefully, I can get some guidance on how to maximize my chances with drummer #2 without hurting anyone's feelings.

Thanks everyone!


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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:32 pm
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I'd either try to jam with him without the bassist, or try to find another bassist that you like better. You shouldn't settle for less than you want, no matter how long it takes, because it will just frustrate you in the long run and it will fall apart in the long run. It should be either "hell yes" or "hell no." It may seem harsh, but after playing for over 25 years and putting up with a lot of b.s. I should never have, I've learned this the hard way. On the other hand, if this bassist has any potential to improve and isn't an $@!&#*% and you get along with him (which unfortunately can be rare with other musicians, sometimes,) then there might be some sort of workaround. Have him involved in something else down the road, off the side. I'm not sure how you'd want to handle something like that, though. But like I said, "hell yes," or "hell no" is a good motto to go by if you want to really accomplish something.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:48 pm
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My advice is that you look everyone in the eye and just think for a second whether you could and would want to have a beer with those players. If the answer is no, then I don't think you can be in a band with that person and share so much with them. You'd get frustrated sooner rather than later. They could be a pro player, but it doesn't matter much if you can't even talk to them normally.
On the other hand is the answer is yes then the chemistry alone will make both of you perform better than you would if you both were pros but couldn't stand each other. I think the human factor here is more important. If you have fun doing it, you'll keep doing it and you, along with everyone else in the band, will learn a lot. If you don't have fun you'll just stagnate, get frustrated and dissolve.

All that being said you should also assess how well you play, but most of all who would you rather play with. If the bassist sucks, but has room (and the will) to improve - then there's no need to change the bassist (especially if you are friends or get along well). Sure, he might struggle at first (like you might, if the drummer is far more skilled than you, for instance), but as long as he has the will - he will improve. Remember, 5% is talent, 95% is practice :wink:

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:10 pm
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It's a process people come and go. The drummer might like the bass player and people get better when inspired. You never know what gonna happen until you give it a go. If the bass player can't keep up he will know it.


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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:37 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Remember, 5% is talent, 95% is practice :wink:


I've seen it happen that you can get more out of a group than the sum of it's parts would initially indicate. Especially if everyone is focused on getting better as a group and not on their own individual agendas. You never know what might happen till you give it a chance. Your bass player may rise to the occasion or just be a temporary fill in till you find another.
On the other side of the coin, I practiced with a trio and no magic was happening that night, even though we were all decent players. I could tell the drummer was upset at the end of the evening. I felt that if we gave it a little effort, there might be something there to build on. I called and emailed the drummer several times in the next two weeks and never got a response. So we'll never know.
I say give it a go. If drummer #2 really wants to play with you, he'll understand about the so, so bass player.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:10 pm
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i know an old bass player that is quite good at following and backing up a lead impro, does some mean baritone licks when needed, and has the too rare sense of when to not play a note.
Unfortunately, he has a broken timer, and tends to speed up or slow down whatever he's playing, which is kind of a bummer for a bass player. He needs a drummer.

So don't discount the bass player, cause he might rise and shine with a good drummer backing him up. And who knows - they might get along quite well, despite differences in technical prowess. And the chemistry of a band tends to be more important than the technical skills.


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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:28 am
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Be honest. There's nothing worse than shady band members. As far as the bassist goes you never know. Many bands are built around standout players and personalities and need people to just hold it down. "Supergroups" are often nauseating to listen to as everyone is always fighting for the spotlight. If he's actually serviceable for the music you're doing and plays simply that might be a good thing. It will mean that he's not constantly trying to fight for room and provides a nice tasteful showcase for you other two to shine. Also, as others have said. he might improve and step up his game in time.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:31 am
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Ringo was $@!&.

His band did alright.


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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:14 am
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Just don't name your band "1023Mb" because you'll never have a gig.

:wink:

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:28 am
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que sera

Wouldn't worry about it, in the slightest.
What works, what fits and what is best aren't necessarily mutual to who's best.

I know some fantastic drummers that I just don't suit. Others that I do and one that I rank alongside Keith Moon and Cozy Powell, though no one else rates him as highly. I'll drop everything to go play for his band and have in the past. I also know less able drummers that I think are the bees knees. I'm really able to lock into their playing and it sets my rhythm playing off a treat. Then again, the drummer is about all I listen to. When they work for me it's heaven. When they don't, they're just a metronome to me. Regardless of the superstar quality rolls and fills.

If this guy wants to play for you then he'll see past any negatives and see what could be. All you can do is be as well rehearsed as possible, honest and polite. Don't tell him you're off touring when you've 2 gigs in 2 different cities.

All that 'gel' and 'bond' talk. Forget it. It's a case of either you can do the job or not. I've worked with plenty of people I despise. It's all about priorities. If you want to be in the band you'll get past the personality conflicts.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:29 am
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Another thing with playing with other people, is it all depends on how far you want to go with your music. A lot of people don't have the ambition to do anything other than to screw around in their garage and/or smoke pot all day. I suppose that's all well and good if you want to be just some hobbyist, but why waste your time and not see how far you can go? You only get one life to live that you know about, so you might as well make the most of it.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:12 pm
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CPL wrote:
A lot of people don't have the ambition to do anything other than to screw around in their garage and/or smoke pot all day. I suppose that's all well and good if you want to be just some hobbyist

so ... musicians who hang out on garages and smoke the funny stuff are never successful? Really? :shock: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:49 am
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Well, at least the ones I've ever played with, and there were a lot of those, unfortunately. I don't know, I suppose I've always wanted more in life than that.

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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:37 am
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I really appreciate it. I totally agree that personalities/chemistry is extremely important in a band, and I will have to weigh that against musical abilities. If this great drummer turns out to be a total flake, I won't want to be in a band with him anyway, so I'll proceed cautiously and be as forthright as possible with the people involved. Much obliged. :)


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Post subject: Re: advice in putting together new band
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:49 am
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Thymatronic wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys. I really appreciate it. I totally agree that personalities/chemistry is extremely important in a band, and I will have to weigh that against musical abilities. If this great drummer turns out to be a total flake, I won't want to be in a band with him anyway, so I'll proceed cautiously and be as forthright as possible with the people involved. Much obliged. :)


Good decision mate :) Imho if you look only at skill, while it will also be a pain to work with someone you despise/don't like, you have to know that there are always people who are more skilled than the ones you are playing with and people who are more skilled than you. So choosing band members based on who can play better would be a never-ending task. Besides, there are way more factors to account rather than just the instrument skill (beside personality, of course). I know there are several people in my area who are more skilled at guitar than me. I doubt any one of them can write better lyrics or better songs than me. A lot of them aren't really creative and while they can play the riffs which I can't, for example, but these riffs are the riffs they learn from somewhere else. And ultimately, unless you're looking to do covers only and to do them note-by-note, creativity is more important than the sole speed one can play at or something.

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