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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:34 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Celestion cones are primed at 75hz for guitar and 55hz for bass. At least with the G12's. Hendrix favoured 55hz for their harsher treble response.
Trust me, I've whacked a load of pitch shifting through guitar speakers in the past at gig volumes, plenty of times.
My usual setup has a 6th below harmonizing (if you could call it that) with the original pitch.
I used to use a 5th below, into an octave fuzz, then a Danelectro octaver doing 1 and 2 octaves below.

Never blew nuffin cept my own eardrums out.

Guitar speakers can handle it. It's more a case of they are not best suited to it. Meaning it won't give you a tone optimized for those frequencies. If you're running the usual 3 times the power capability of the head, cab. Or even at peak 1.5 times. (100watt head, 300watt cab. 100watt head at peak gives near 200 watts), you're not putting enough power in to blow the speaker unless there is something wrong with it. An octaver ain't gonna hurt, lots of people use em.


Can't copy and paste the frequency response chart, but 20 Hz is almost 20 dB below 55 Hz. Not gonna be putting out much SPL.

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:25 pm
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Comes through well enough. I'll dig my octaver out at some point. Does 2 octaves below guitar low E concert pitch with ease.

This one. 8watt practice amp probably ain't got the best speaker Bill. But it ain't jumping out the cab. Which pretty much answers the OP's question.


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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:29 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Comes through well enough. I'll dig my octaver out at some point. Does 2 octaves below guitar low E concert pitch with ease.

This one. 8watt practice amp probably ain't got the best speaker Bill. But it ain't jumping out the cab. Which pretty much answers the OP's question.



No offense meant, but anyone who thinks they are hearing a useful 20 Hz tone being created by these boxes and reproduced is sadly mistaken and has never heard a true 20 Hz tone at loud listening levels. In almost all cases what is being heard are harmonics and various distortions. Hear are a few articles discussing low frequency reproduction. It is not easy to do with commonly available equipment.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mQ&cad=rja

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... mQ&cad=rja

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 8935,d.dmQ

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:29 pm
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If you don't want to read all that, than a simple demo may suffice.

http://www.genelec.com/learning-center/test-signals/

http://www.genelec.com/documents/testsi ... _boink.mp3

If you are listening to the mp3 through your computer speakers, the very lowest tones will not reproduce correctly. You will definitely need some BIGGER speakers and MUCH MORE POWER.

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:20 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Fennycaster wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Two octaves below that would be 20 Hz. No guitar amp is going to reproduce that sound unless it has a lot of power and very large speakers. Frequencies in that range are not so much heard as they are felt.


Actually I already watched a lot of reviews of ehx POG2 on youtube and they were using normal guitar amps and I could hear the 2 octaves below the dry signal. There are reviews in which they test every octave seperately and you can always hear the 2 octaves below without any problem.


Please provide a link demonstrating 2 octaves below 80 Hz.



In this link you can clearly hear the 2 octaves below: http://youtu.be/_vG1KoN0r14?t=7m3s

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:16 pm
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Fennycaster wrote:
In this link you can clearly hear the 2 octaves below: http://youtu.be/_vG1KoN0r14?t=7m3s


If you say so. I'm guessing you have never heard a true 20 Hz tone, be it a pure sine wave or organ foot pedal. You might want to read the information I posted just before this post. It is not my opinion but acoustic facts.

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 pm
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Not to mention that the BIG majority of the people can't even hear frequencies as low as 20 Hz :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:31 pm
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Neimenljivi wrote:
Not to mention that the BIG majority of the people can't even hear frequencies as low as 20 Hz :wink:


But with enough power, you can feel them. :shock:

I have a large collection of organ music by JS Bach and other Baroque composers, With my subwoofer (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html) corner loaded, you can hear 20 Hz and feel 16 Hz. It can be quite intimidating. I also attend a number of live organ recitals. The 32 foot pipes (16 Hz) of the organ at The Washington National Cathedral are unbelievable.

http://www.nationalcathedral.org/pdfs/G ... nSpecs.pdf

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:29 pm
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We trying to find some brown noise.


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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:19 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Fennycaster wrote:
In this link you can clearly hear the 2 octaves below: http://youtu.be/_vG1KoN0r14?t=7m3s


If you say so. I'm guessing you have never heard a true 20 Hz tone, be it a pure sine wave or organ foot pedal. You might want to read the information I posted just before this post. It is not my opinion but acoustic facts.


It's not that I don't believe you, but why would they tfhen put a function fot -2 octaves on it if guitaramps even can't produce them?

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:27 am
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Two words......

"Marketing"

and "Hype"

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:39 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Neimenljivi wrote:
Not to mention that the BIG majority of the people can't even hear frequencies as low as 20 Hz :wink:


But with enough power, you can feel them. :shock:

I have a large collection of organ music by JS Bach and other Baroque composers, With my subwoofer (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html) corner loaded, you can hear 20 Hz and feel 16 Hz. It can be quite intimidating. I also attend a number of live organ recitals. The 32 foot pipes (16 Hz) of the organ at The Washington National Cathedral are unbelievable.

http://www.nationalcathedral.org/pdfs/G ... nSpecs.pdf


Yep, you can feel them if there's enough power :)

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:24 pm
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Fennycaster wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Fennycaster wrote:
In this link you can clearly hear the 2 octaves below: http://youtu.be/_vG1KoN0r14?t=7m3s


If you say so. I'm guessing you have never heard a true 20 Hz tone, be it a pure sine wave or organ foot pedal. You might want to read the information I posted just before this post. It is not my opinion but acoustic facts.


It's not that I don't believe you, but why would they tfhen put a function fot -2 octaves on it if guitaramps even can't produce them?


Because that -2 octaves applies to every note on the guitar, not just the bass. Plus, even though you can't hear the the 2 octaves below low E, there are harmonics generated that you would not normally hear otherwise. That is basically what you are hearing underlying the low notes. You most likely can hear generated notes in the 50 to 80 Hz range (maybe even 40 Hz if the speakers are good enough and you have enough power). With a good bass guitar and bass amp system you have a better chance of hearing those very low notes, but not likely with a guitar and guitar amp.

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:54 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
With a good bass guitar and bass amp system you have a better chance of hearing those very low notes, but not likely with a guitar and guitar amp.


This rig would likely qualify......

Image

:mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Does octave generators harm your amp?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:43 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
With a good bass guitar and bass amp system you have a better chance of hearing those very low notes, but not likely with a guitar and guitar amp.


This rig would likely qualify......

Image


I'm not too sure about that. Looks like a boatload of 12" speakers and a couple of horns to me - neither of which are likely to go down to subbass levels. And unless you have a modded or very special amp, it might have a cutoff frequency in the 28-32 Hz range, in which case it doesn't matter what you hook it up to.


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