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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:49 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Ceri wrote:
[BUMP]2 April. Ahem - just reviving this thread in case the Doc has anything new he'd care to share with us on the subject of '54 Strats with collectable neckplates...?Cheers - C

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Ahem!! Yes, in fact. As I said elsewhere...this is neck plate which I maintained should have been on every one of the 1954 LTD '54 American Vintage models and should have read 'One of 1954'. The fact that it just happened to show up as the only guitar of its kind in a Sam Ash store 15 min down the road, was a matter of caprice. The local GC a mile away from there, told me the nearest '54 they had was 4.5 hours away in Orlando. The Sam Ash just had one. This was it. Had it not had the neck plate, it would still be there.



Gorgeous. What do you know? A Sam Ash and a GC had them. I wonder if you local Mom & Pop had a chance to get one?

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:20 pm
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I am an idiot, alright.
I should have done this long ago.


((click))

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:19 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Gorgeous. What do you know? A Sam Ash and a GC had them. I wonder if you local Mom & Pop had a chance to get one?

I can't vouch for the Orlando store having THE guitar. I was told they had 'A' guitar but no further and, quite honestly, he didn't volunteer to call them and find out BUT, he was willing to have it sent if I ordered it with a deposit. Soooo...when I returned to the house, I called Sam Ash just for the hell of it and the young man who took my call confirmed that they had THE guitar. So I went down there and put a deposit on it.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:35 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Ceri wrote:
[BUMP]2 April. Ahem - just reviving this thread in case the Doc has anything new he'd care to share with us on the subject of '54 Strats with collectable neckplates...?Cheers - C

Image

Ahem!! Yes, in fact. As I said elsewhere...this is neck plate which I maintained should have been on every one of the 1954 LTD '54 American Vintage models and should have read 'One of 1954'. The fact that it just happened to show up as the only guitar of its kind in a Sam Ash store 15 min down the road, was a matter of caprice. The local GC a mile away from there, told me the nearest '54 they had was 4.5 hours away in Orlando. The Sam Ash just had one. This was it. Had it not had the neck plate, it would still be there.

Well, whadayaknow. I had a kind of an instinct this story wasn't quite over yet... :)

Nice haul, Doc. Nice! Congrats indeed.

BTW: wracking my brains for a previous time you've posted a photo on this Forum. Is this the first? If so, quite a stylish way to set out!

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:49 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Gorgeous. What do you know? A Sam Ash and a GC had them. I wonder if you local Mom & Pop had a chance to get one?

I can't vouch for the Orlando store having THE guitar. I was told they had 'A' guitar but no further and, quite honestly, he didn't volunteer to call them and find out BUT, he was willing to have it sent if I ordered it with a deposit. Soooo...when I returned to the house, I called Sam Ash just for the hell of it and the young man who took my call confirmed that they had THE guitar. So I went down there and put a deposit on it.


Interesting. In any event, congratulations! She's a beauty and it's very cool that someone here has one!

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:39 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Nice haul, Doc. Nice! Congrats indeed.
BTW: wracking my brains for a previous time you've posted a photo on this Forum. Is this the first? If so, quite a stylish way to set out!
Cheers - C

No....this 'un is far more stylish :!: :wink:
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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:48 pm
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SNAP! :D

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:35 pm
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Whoa, a couple of rough characters there; no comment.

TheKingofPain wrote:
Finish wear on the body of a guitar doesn't affect the performance of a guitar like parts rusting and falling off your car does. Also, it's not like you have to bring in your guitar for inspection to your local registered service center and have a government sticker put on it before you can take it on stage.


While it is true that one's guitars aren't inspected or licensed by the gov't and the relicing fad hasn't hit the car market, the analogy isn't bad. Rust does affect the performance of a guitar. I guess you have to have old rusty guitars to know, or own a Custom Shop Heavy Relic with screws that won't turn (there have been threads at this forum with CS owners complaining that they can't do set ups!).

I bet if more people saw the condition of my old truck's paint job, and how really cool it is, the relic car fad would take off! My truck still runs fine, and body parts aren't littering the highways, so the look is truly just cosmetic. I am glad I live in the desert and it's just sun damage, not rust, giving my old truck it's patina.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:32 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
I am glad I live in the desert and it's just sun damage, not rust, giving my old truck it's patina.


You must live near Yakima. Every other place in Washington it rains 320 days a year.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:16 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
Whoa, a couple of rough characters there; no comment.

TheKingofPain wrote:
Finish wear on the body of a guitar doesn't affect the performance of a guitar like parts rusting and falling off your car does. Also, it's not like you have to bring in your guitar for inspection to your local registered service center and have a government sticker put on it before you can take it on stage.


While it is true that one's guitars aren't inspected or licensed by the gov't and the relicing fad hasn't hit the car market, the analogy isn't bad. Rust does affect the performance of a guitar. I guess you have to have old rusty guitars to know, or own a Custom Shop Heavy Relic with screws that won't turn (there have been threads at this forum with CS owners complaining that they can't do set ups!).

I bet if more people saw the condition of my old truck's paint job, and how really cool it is, the relic car fad would take off! My truck still runs fine, and body parts aren't littering the highways, so the look is truly just cosmetic. I am glad I live in the desert and it's just sun damage, not rust, giving my old truck it's patina.


Cleaning and keeping the moving nickel parts on a guitar is part of maintenance. If you buy a guitar that is purposefully aged to the point of being a heavy relic then you should assume that it will likely need maintenance like an old guitar. Otherwise you wouldn't have gotten what you paid for, and you pay really good money to have a guitar get worn by hand by a builder.

People buy "broken in" items all the time. I'm sure the people trashing a relic jobbed guitar don't go to sears and buy a pair of stiff as a board pair of "toughskins" when they need new pants. They probably buy a nice relaxed, pre-washed, "comfort fitted" pair of Levi's or some other brand. You know why those are so comfortable? Because they are purposefully worn out and prewashed multiple times before purchased. "New". While this shortens the life of the pants, at least without repairs. It also makes them comfortable and familiar from the get go. Just like it does with a guitar. Your factory pre-washed Levi's? That's your Roadworn guitar. Those designer jeans you see well to do people wearing? That's your Custom Shop Strat. It's a boutique appointment. Nothing more. Just like "Rolled Fingerboard Edges" on an American Standard is a boutique appointment that simulates a well worn in neck. Oh, but I guess that's different, right? Yeah... probably.

This fad isn't new. It's new for guitars, but not at all on other products. Products the people making a big fuss about it likely buy without even thinking.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:53 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
It's a boutique appointment. Nothing more. Just like "Rolled Fingerboard Edges" on an American Standard is a boutique appointment that simulates a well worn in neck. Oh, but I guess that's different, right? Yeah... probably.

Hello TheKingofPain: as it happens I do think the rolled fingerboard edges thing is different.

Makers noticed that old guitars with their edges worn smooth often feel nicer in the hand than the sharp edges on new ones. So they invented a process for smoothing off the edges on new fingerboards to give them a similar comfortable feel.

But that is not the same as putting fake wear on them to pretend that they're old. Nobody would mistake factory rolled fingerboard edges for imitation worn ones.

I entirely take your point about jeans. Most of us buy pre-washed jeans with the indigo faded to varying degrees.

On the other hand, a good many of us don't buy brand new jeans with holes deliberately ripped into them, and think the folks who do pay a premium for that feature on some designer brands are publically flaunting their silliness as well as their disposable income.

Obviously, as with relic'd guitars, that's a matter of personal preference. Each to their own, say I. I wouldn't want to make a big fuss about it...

TheKingofPain wrote:
This fad isn't new. It's new for guitars, but not at all on other products. Products the people making a big fuss about it likely buy without even thinking.


Hmm. Well yes, I can think of one or two other examples.

But not many. I suggest that the pretend-old look on products is very much the exception rather than the rule?

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:28 am
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Ceri wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
It's a boutique appointment. Nothing more. Just like "Rolled Fingerboard Edges" on an American Standard is a boutique appointment that simulates a well worn in neck. Oh, but I guess that's different, right? Yeah... probably.

Hello TheKingofPain: as it happens I do think the rolled fingerboard edges thing is different.

Makers noticed that old guitars with their edges worn smooth often feel nicer in the hand than the sharp edges on new ones. So they invented a process for smoothing off the edges on new fingerboards to give them a similar comfortable feel.

But that is not the same as putting fake wear on them to pretend that they're old. Nobody would mistake factory rolled fingerboard edges for imitation worn ones.


Just because you think it's different doesn't really mean that it is. It's a specific wear process that was a boutique appointment moved to factory production instruments to duplicate the wear that playing an older instrument provides. So the argument is that if it makes it more comfortable to play, it's not "fake aging"? It's a "pro feature"? However, if it's "cosmetic" it's "silliness"? Not only is the comfort level subjective, as obviously anyone who's played a vintage guitar can tell you that a well worn in neck on the back is more comfortable and eases playing. This extends to the "feel" of an instrument, as well. Much like any other tool. A brand new wooden axe handle is not as comfortable to work with as a well worn one. Now, for something like splitting wood ordering an axe that looks beat might not make much sense. However, there's not a whole lot of artistic expression in the process for the average log splitter. So things like comfort are merely a question of performance, and must stand up against the CBA of does it really help you split wood "better" than a new one? Maybe, but what's the pay off? For something like art and music the subjective nature of those choices become much more heavily weighed by some in the CBA. Meaning if you're up there with a tacky neck, or worrying about a scratch in your guitar when you were taking it off then it's going to be in your head when you perform.

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I entirely take your point about jeans. Most of us buy pre-washed jeans with the indigo faded to varying degrees.

On the other hand, a good many of us don't buy brand new jeans with holes deliberately ripped into them, and think the folks who do pay a premium for that feature on some designer brands are publically flaunting their silliness as well as their disposable income.


So I wonder is it a question of hypocrisy that it's okay for people to like their things "slightly broken in", but not "too broken in". Or is it simply envy at what they can't afford?

Quote:
Obviously, as with relic'd guitars, that's a matter of personal preference. Each to their own, say I. I wouldn't want to make a big fuss about it...


As do I. What people spend their money on doesn't matter to me, at all. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for everyone. Personally, when it comes to play wear, or even fingerboard rolling. I prefer to do it myself. However, I don't look down on people who choose to put that money into it. Also, that's not to say that if I came across a good deal on a relic'd CS bass I'd turn it down because it was a relic. That would be silly. However, to me it's just not worth the cost to actively seek out the feature. Especially considering how often I play, and that Fender seems to be leading with these "thin laquer" finishes lately. Meaning that there seems to be much less time required to break in a nitro instrument than their used to be. So there's no need to spend years and years playing an instrument to get it comfortable.

TheKingofPain wrote:
This fad isn't new. It's new for guitars, but not at all on other products. Products the people making a big fuss about it likely buy without even thinking.


Quote:
Hmm. Well yes, I can think of one or two other examples.

But not many. I suggest that the pretend-old look on products is very much the exception rather than the rule?

Cheers - C



Perhaps for the mainstream consumer culture. However, there's actually an entire subculture built around it. Steampunk is HUGE in certain circles. Where people purposely make their items look like antiqued pieces along with making them look like technology out of something Jules Verne might have written. There are plenty of markets where an "aged" look is something that you buy as either a status symbol, or simply for comfort. Or both. Which is likely the case with most Relic purchases. Jewelry, furniture, architecture, and many other industries that are sometimes viewed as bordering on artistic in nature, or relate to artistic pursuits have this as something people choose to do. Guitar making is certainly in that sphere.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:00 am
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My personal dress and grooming style is somewhat retro-cowboy-bluesman-rock & roller...somewhat like Jimmie Vaughan, with a bit less grease in the hair and my boots aren't so pointy. Unique, but not so far out there that I stand out in a crowd. I do have a few ridiculous and garish items of clothing, including the infamous "Texas" jacket (see below), but most of my stuff is not outrageous.

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Overall, I tend to find "classic" looking clothing items that are never "trendy" but never "out of style" either. Professionally and for religious services, I wear basic, classic suits and ties that reflect the current trend (right now, slim-cut suits and skinnier ties are in style, so I have had a few suits altered and bought a couple of new ones... it's a good thing I didn't get rid of the ties I had from the 80's and the ones I inherited from my father's 1960's wardrobe). I wear a watch as similar as I could find to the one my great-grandfather wore--thin, square body and face with a leather strap...classic and classy, and definitely retro...
In fact, in a suit, I look like a refugee from an early 1960's jazz album cover.

However, I'll let my goofiness and craziness show in my socks--I'll wear loud colored or patterned socks, just for that polite touch of anarchy and rebellion. It isn't much, but neither am I.

I think my personal dress and grooming is reflected in my choice of instruments...overall, they're classicly-styled, with some flash (Fiesta Red finish on my Strat, a Dean Chrome G Resonator) and a few "hidden tricks" (push-pull pot on my Strat, Fender No-Load Tone Pot & 4-way switching on my Telecaster).

While I wouldn't turn my nose up at a road worn or relic'd guitar (you should see my favorite boots!), I wouldn't necessarily seek one out, especially buying new (I didn't buy those boots looking the way they look now).

It's all situational and dependant on the instrument itself...likewise with the clothes.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:36 am
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Most excellent! However, what interests me is the 'anatomical'location of the image of The Alamo. Is that truly where the "heart" of Texas lies. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:47 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
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Most excellent! However, what interests me is the 'anatomical'location of the image of The Alamo. Is that truly where the "heart" of Texas lies. :wink:

That map is not accurate (at all) in it's placing of the Capitol building (Austin), but fairly close to the placement of the Alamo (San Antonio).

If anyone is planning to travel to Texas, do not use this photograph to keep you oriented.

Also, there is not a longhorn as big as the one depicted in west Texas...close, but not quite that big... :lol:

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