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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:59 am
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captainc wrote:
I had an ad for a Fender Heavy Relic come up on my FB page. It was white painted over sunburst then sanded down here and there to reveal the finish underneath. That I just don’t get. Its one thing to have a series with little bit of a worn look but to think that people pay huge sums of money for a guitar that’s been painted over and sanded down is just mind boggling.

That's a truly vintage concept. Back in 'the day' Fender offered a small number of custom color options. The paint source for them was Dupont [Duco] automobile paint. If you ordered a custom color, it wasn't done from the bottom up. They pulled a sunburst body off the line and refinished it. This is why the Gilmour relic, for example, is done as it is. There's a bit of sunburst peeking through. The original was a black over sunburst. Hence, the repro is twice finished and distressed. The guitar you saw listed for sale was, as well, a relic re-creation of that period in Fender history.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:07 pm
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Ahhh well that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification, I guess that does make for a faithful relic if that’s your thing. I did not realize that was part of manufacturing process at Fender back then. I had heard of that and knew about the Gilmour black strat but thought it was perhaps an aftermarket paint over. Learn something new every day.

Seems these days the MIM strats have the nicer colors too. I like Midnight Wine but if I was buying right now, I wouldn’t be able to get it on say an American Special or a Deluxe for that matter. At least as far as I can tell.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:27 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Back in 'the day' Fender offered a small number of custom color options. The paint source for them was Dupont [Duco] automobile paint. If you ordered a custom color, it wasn't done from the bottom up. They pulled a sunburst body off the line and refinished it.


Not always the case, Doc.

I have personally examined vintage Strats finished in original Duco custom colors where the paint was applied directly atop the Fullerplast sealer coat. These examples I cite included Fiesta Red, Daphne or Sonic Blue (often hard to distinguish on these older guitars), and Lake Placid Blue.

In the main though, you are correct. The majority of the early custom-finished instruments usually began life as a 2- or 3-tone sunburst.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:44 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I have personally examined vintage Strats finished in original Duco custom colors where the paint was applied directly atop the Fullerplast sealer coat.....In the main though, you are correct. The majority of the early custom-finished instruments usually began life as a 2- or 3-tone sunburst....Arjay

Dave Gilmour's guitar starts off as what is described as 'an ordinary guitar'purchased at Manny's' in May of 1970. According to its biographer, Phil Taylor, the guitar was probably assembled in 1969. The body was a sunburst finish oversprayed in black as a custom color. The anniversary year for the manufacture of the Black Strat is numbering 45 this year. In what time frame did you find custom colors sprayed directly atop the sealer coat? I bear in mind that the guitar originated in the CBS-Fender period, so anything went. In the 60th anniv year I'm beginning to look at 'vintage' Stratocasters from the same point of view as we look at the aging and assign the term 'vintage-vintage'to Stratocaster guitars before 1964. As for Teles....Ufff!!

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:54 pm
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I know nothing of Mr. Gilmore or his Strat and was not aware that it was the topic of this thread.

My apologies.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I know nothing of Mr. Gilmore or his Strat and was not aware that it was the topic of this thread. My apologies.
Arjay

Ideas and subjects tend to flow like the river to the sea at times.
We often benefit collectively from such digressions. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:04 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Blertles wrote:
I don't have a problem with relics... my problem is that relics are all you see. Either custom classic, custom deluxe, artist or relic. Thats all there is and the majority of it is relics..

There was once a time before relics that Fender were doing some cool stuff, not in the master built bracket either..


90's set neck strat..

90's MIJ Fotoflame deluxe tele

90's Telecaster custom

it would be refreshing to see something completely new for a change..


There is the Select series. But even that's not really innovative, but gilding the lily. Nice, though, and probably the most 'modern" guitars you can get from Fender these days.

The "Proto" series is a WTH, though - it's more about re-inventing old-fashioned than trying something new. I'd like to see something completely new too.
The possibilities are endless, but what we get is ... a slightly differently milled middle bridge saddle to improve intonation from really bad to mere bad? That's not a disruptive technology. It's trying to build an antique with a new twist. It's like building a 1950s car, but putting in a 1970s eight-track cassette player.


The Proto P bass I don't think went far enough in some aspects, but too far in others. They took a first gen Precision and put a TV Jones in it with the high mass bridge. Cool. However, why not get really crazy and make it a semi-hollow body? That would be worth the price to me. Something that makes it special. The only other thing they did was put medium jumbos on the vintage spec neck. Which, imo. Ruined it. The bass models sometimes are headscratchers to me. It doesn't seem like much thought goes into their offerings, honestly.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:42 pm
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A marketing idea for Fender, for those of us who don't care for the relic look. Keep the dents and scratches and offer 15 to 20 percent off on the one's with the new look. :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:12 pm
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Once upon a time... Beat up old 60's strats where not worth anything compared to pristine Strats of the same age. In fact, they were barely a 10th of the price..

That was before the dark ages. Before the age of the 'Relic'..

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:17 am
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Blertles wrote:
That was before the dark ages. Before the age of the 'Relic'..

You don't know the power of THE DARK SIDE :!: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:39 pm
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[BUMP]

2 April. Ahem - just reviving this thread in case the Doc has anything new he'd care to share with us on the subject of '54 Strats with collectable neckplates...?

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:05 pm
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S Bender wrote:
A marketing idea for Fender, for those of us who don't care for the relic look. Keep the dents and scratches and offer 15 to 20 percent off on the one's with the new look. :lol: :lol:



Relic is an upcharge. Obviously as it requires labor, and labor takes time. You pay less for a non-relic'd guitar or bass. If you look at a CS build sheet you'll see the different finish options. Including the relic levels, and their cost. So if you order a Fender without relicing. It will cost you the base price for that model.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:13 pm
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Karl Hungus wrote:
Tiger J wrote:
I don't understand relicing at all...


I don't either. Honda didn't offer my new car in a "road worn" edition, with strategically placed rust on the wheel arches, and no one in his or her right mind would buy one if they did. Same goes with guitars.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know why I didn't notice this earlier.
This is the absolute perfect, definitive response to the relic question.
I couldn't agree more.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:44 pm
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Ceri wrote:
[BUMP]2 April. Ahem - just reviving this thread in case the Doc has anything new he'd care to share with us on the subject of '54 Strats with collectable neckplates...?Cheers - C

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Ahem!! Yes, in fact. As I said elsewhere...this is neck plate which I maintained should have been on every one of the 1954 LTD '54 American Vintage models and should have read 'One of 1954'. The fact that it just happened to show up as the only guitar of its kind in a Sam Ash store 15 min down the road, was a matter of caprice. The local GC a mile away from there, told me the nearest '54 they had was 4.5 hours away in Orlando. The Sam Ash just had one. This was it. Had it not had the neck plate, it would still be there.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:47 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Karl Hungus wrote:
Tiger J wrote:
I don't understand relicing at all...


I don't either. Honda didn't offer my new car in a "road worn" edition, with strategically placed rust on the wheel arches, and no one in his or her right mind would buy one if they did. Same goes with guitars.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know why I didn't notice this earlier.
This is the absolute perfect, definitive response to the relic question.
I couldn't agree more.



Not really for a couple of reasons. Finish wear on the body of a guitar doesn't affect the performance of a guitar like parts rusting and falling off your car does. Also, it's not like you have to bring in your guitar for inspection to your local registered service center and have a government sticker put on it before you can take it on stage. Comparing a car to a guitar is kind of idiotic in this sense.

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