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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:56 am
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I played a vintage '57 Stratocaster out at Fretted Americana 3 years ago this summer. There wasn't anything about it's vintageness that warranted the $40K price tag.

With respect to desire for the look and feel of a well gigged guitar. I had a '58 Strat which saw ten years of use and never looked like some of stuff being marketed as journeyman gear. Back in the day, gear was wanted to look pristine, in the same fashion as our stage clothing. The few dings I had in my guitar were annoying enough to me that I sent it out to CBS-Fender in summer '69 to be refinished. Long before vintage insanity had taken hold of us. They did me the huge favor of replacing the body, not refinishing it. I didn't learn that fact until 25 years later when I had it appraised.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:13 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
I played a vintage '57 Stratocaster out at Fretted Americana 3 years ago this summer. There wasn't anything about it's vintageness that warranted the $40K price tag.

With respect to desire for the look and feel of a well gigged guitar. I had a '58 Strat which saw ten years of use and never looked like some of stuff being marketed as journeyman gear. Back in the day, gear was wanted to look pristine, in the same fashion as our stage clothing. The few dings I had in my guitar were annoying enough to me that I sent it out to CBS-Fender in summer '69 to be refinished. Long before vintage insanity had taken hold of us. They did me the huge favor of replacing the body, not refinishing it. I didn't learn that fact until 25 years later when I had it appraised.


My 78 P was really, really well broken in. The neck on it played smoother than any new instrument I've ever had my hands on. The wear does add to the playability in some respects. Though, as you said. It would qualify as a "light relic" by the standards of things being churned out as "vintage" looking now. (dings, wear, fading, ect.) Though to be fair late 70's Poly was just about bulletproof.

Everytime I start to miss that bass I remember that the damn thing weighed 13.6lbs and suddenly I'm not as misty eyed anymore. Great playing and sounding bass, but I can't ever see wanting to relive playing 4 hours a night with that thing slung over my shoulder again.

If for some reason I did lose my mind and want to they can still be picked up at a decent price. However, I don't think I'd want to spend 20k on something like an early 50's P and gig with it. If I can't gig with it, what the hell is the point? Moreover, I wouldn't want to spend all that money on a vintage instrument and have to break it in. If I wanted to break in a vintage spec bass. Fender still offers them.

From a gigging stand point I can see wanting a giggable early 50's P and having it broken in like a vintage piece. You buy one, gig it. Something happens you get the insurance and replace it. Something happens to your vintage 50's Fender. You can't just pick up the phone and order another.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:47 pm
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I agree with those who said they did not care for a 'relic' guitar but I don't think I could fault Fender for catering to those who want them and are willing to pay extra. They are in the business of making money, after all. I'm just not one of them. I get in a hissy fit if I ding or scratch one of my prizes so I most definitely would not pay someone to do it for me over and above the price of an already expensive guitar.

On the 54, I agree with ZZDoc on that point. A special edition guitar should be a special edition guitar. You either get one or you don't ... but to get one and not get the same case candy as someone else just seems kind of pissy to me. I would refuse to buy one if someone else got something I didn't. I would consider that to be an insult. My money is just as good as anybody else's. Is there a price difference? Do people who get the extra candy pay more or is it just another case of rewarding those who live in a large city and punishing those who do not? I have not seen any advertisements with more than one price.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:52 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
On the 54, I agree with ZZDoc on that point. A special edition guitar should be a special edition guitar. You either get one or you don't ... but to get one and not get the same case candy as someone else just seems kind of pissy to me. I would refuse to buy one if someone else got something I didn't. I would consider that to be an insult. My money is just as good as anybody else's. Is there a price difference? Do people who get the extra candy pay more or is it just another case of rewarding those who live in a large city and punishing those who do not? I have not seen any advertisements with more than one price.


This to me seems wierd. Is it like a "golden ticket"? Because if it is I think we all know where those Strats will end up. The big boxes will get them and as you point out. Anyone outside of the big retailers will end up getting the "plain" special edition. Which seems ludicrous for the same price. If you're getting less you should be paying less.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:35 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
This to me seems wierd. Is it like a "golden ticket"? Because if it is I think we all know where those Strats will end up. The big boxes will get them and as you point out. Anyone outside of the big retailers will end up getting the "plain" special edition. Which seems ludicrous for the same price. If you're getting less you should be paying less.

I can't even begin to imagine how they might be parceling out those 54 guitars. The same for the 500 Gilmour guitars which contained the book. Here's a thought...go to the owner/manager of the vendor you do business with and say...I'll give you $500 down on the purchase of this guitar. The completion of this transaction is contingent upon you delivering one of the 54 guitars Fender is putting a commemorative neck plate on. If they can't guarantee that....walk.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:06 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
This to me seems wierd. Is it like a "golden ticket"? Because if it is I think we all know where those Strats will end up. The big boxes will get them and as you point out. Anyone outside of the big retailers will end up getting the "plain" special edition. Which seems ludicrous for the same price. If you're getting less you should be paying less.

I can't even begin to imagine how they might be parceling out those 54 guitars. The same for the 500 Gilmour guitars which contained the book. Here's a thought...go to the owner/manager of the vendor you do business with and say...I'll give you $500 down on the purchase of this guitar. The completion of this transaction is contingent upon you delivering one of the 54 guitars Fender is putting a commemorative neck plate on. If they can't guarantee that....walk.



I have a feeling that these "special" special editions will go to the Musician's Friends and Sam Ash's of the world. I don't really think the local mom and pops have much of a shot at getting these. The whole thing just seems bizarre.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:18 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
I have a feeling that these "special" special editions will go to the Musician's Friends and Sam Ash's of the world. I don't really think the local mom and pops have much of a shot at getting these.


That'd be a pretty sensible bet -- both are major FMIC clients. Wildwood and Sweetwater too.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:22 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
I have a feeling that these "special" special editions will go to the Musician's Friends and Sam Ash's of the world. I don't really think the local mom and pops have much of a shot at getting these.


That'd be a pretty sensible bet -- both are major FMIC clients. Wildwood and Sweetwater too.

Arjay



Yup.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:09 pm
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great post TheKingofPain!

the best metal guitars are Jackson, Charvel is a close second. I have a Jackson, I like it very much. Fender guitars are excellent metal guitars if the player absolutely knows what he is doing, not many of those players around. Kind of like the thread coming upon relic/roadworn models. There are several of those that I have looked at. Why people buy what they buy I stopped thinking about when I retired lol. I could do that again, just not as aggressively. :)

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:50 pm
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I don't have a problem with relics... my problem is that relics are all you see. Either custom classic, custom deluxe, artist or relic. Thats all there is and the majority of it is relics..

There was once a time before relics that Fender were doing some cool stuff, not in the master built bracket either..


90's set neck strat..
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90's MIJ Fotoflame deluxe tele
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90's Telecaster customImage
it would be refreshing to see something completely new for a change..

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:47 am
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I had an ad for a Fender Heavy Relic come up on my FB page. It was white painted over sunburst then sanded down here and there to reveal the finish underneath. That I just don’t get. Its one thing to have a series with little bit of a worn look but to think that people pay huge sums of money for a guitar that’s been painted over and sanded down is just mind boggling. Wouldn’t work for a car. Crap, I’ll do that for someone if they want me to and I’ll take the money and go get an American Special LOL

I agree on some of those 90s Strats. This is a 93 Squier and one of my "Ones that got away". Didn't have the loot at the time but If it had been on display much lower at the local music store I likely would have relic'd it with my drool. I just liked it. I might have to grab one of these off ebay at some point.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:13 am
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Blertles wrote:
I don't have a problem with relics... my problem is that relics are all you see. Either custom classic, custom deluxe, artist or relic. Thats all there is and the majority of it is relics..

There was once a time before relics that Fender were doing some cool stuff, not in the master built bracket either..


90's set neck strat..

90's MIJ Fotoflame deluxe tele

90's Telecaster custom

it would be refreshing to see something completely new for a change..


There is the Select series. But even that's not really innovative, but gilding the lily. Nice, though, and probably the most 'modern" guitars you can get from Fender these days.

The "Proto" series is a WTH, though - it's more about re-inventing old-fashioned than trying something new. I'd like to see something completely new too.
The possibilities are endless, but what we get is ... a slightly differently milled middle bridge saddle to improve intonation from really bad to mere bad? That's not a disruptive technology. It's trying to build an antique with a new twist. It's like building a 1950s car, but putting in a 1970s eight-track cassette player.


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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:36 am
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Blertles wrote:
I don't have a problem with relics... my problem is that relics are all you see. Either custom classic, custom deluxe, artist or relic. Thats all there is and the majority of it is relics..

There was once a time before relics that Fender were doing some cool stuff, not in the master built bracket either..


90's set neck strat..
Image

90's MIJ Fotoflame deluxe tele
Image



The Set Neck is really nice, there is quite a bit of info in the book " The Dream Factory " Fender Custom Shop, chapter 19....

As for the Fotoflame, I have seen three of those and everyone of them had problems of the top splitting and delaminating.....
I do literally mean delaminating... The fotoflames are a japanese model, the very thin top is a photo etched onto the top sheet, then laminated to the body....
Problem over time is that since the body is wood, but the top is some kind of plastic or photo receptive surface, the two expand and contract at different rates and they split apart....
These guitars are not very expensive but not worth it since the top becomes a nightmare over time....

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:43 am
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Tiger J wrote:
I don't understand relicing at all...


I don't either. Honda didn't offer my new car in a "road worn" edition, with strategically placed rust on the wheel arches, and no one in his or her right mind would buy one if they did. Same goes with guitars.


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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:52 am
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Blertles wrote:
90's set neck strat..Image
it would be refreshing to see something completely new for a change..

This is an elegant reworking of the Strat Ultra concept. But a nice guitar at any rate. Fender did a lot of those kinds of things.

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