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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:14 am
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[quote="Ceri]What I can report is that neither the edition nor the signature nor the leather bound box or anything else changes in any way whatsoever the content of the text. Which is identical to the affordable paperback version.Cheers - C[/quote]

......unless a collector desires a signed copy which, depending upon the creator, what is being created, and the market for it, affects its value. Recall that I qualified my remarks with a reference to what makes the rabbit run in this guitar society of ours. FMIC, by dint of the 'special plate' assigns a more desirable ownership value to the first 54. The Gilmour perk, as I came to find out, turned up as a dud for them in that the second edition of the book was already on the shelves. There was more of an annoyance on my part than disappointment that my order did not have one, considering that I placed it rather early, AND through Guitar Center. Meanwhile, Wildwood was in possession of a horde of those guitars. You might remember my writing on that matter back then when we were attempting to discern whether or not there was any relationship between serial number and build date.

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Last edited by ZZDoc on Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:28 am
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tl;dr FMIC is marketing to stupid people with money to burn.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:15 pm
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Hey guys. I'M BACK! It's been way too long my friends..not that I am important in any realm of the imagination to you pros but hey it is what it is..let's get back on track!

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:34 pm
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Toliver-Lyons wrote:
Hey guys. I'M BACK! It's been way too long my friends..not that I am important in any realm of the imagination to you pros but hey it is what it is..let's get back on track!

True :wink: ....but it's good to have you on board again :!: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:36 pm
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Buxom wrote:
tl;dr FMIC is marketing to stupid people with money to burn.

In one respect your observation was corroberated by an article I read somewhere about the Custom Shop. The article saw the company catering to 40-something success stories...weekend guitar heroes...financially able to afford high end gear.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:38 pm
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Thanks Doc....trying to prioritize some things. Enjoyment of life is at the top of the list....

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:45 pm
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Toliver-Lyons wrote:
Thanks Doc....trying to prioritize some things. Enjoyment of life is at the top of the list....

Yah...you've had your issues last 6 months or so, haven't you. Catch up with me privately. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:53 pm
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Ten years ago when they released a 50th Ann.Strats it coincided with my 50th birthday and they had 3 different models at 3 different price points to choose from.Since it was my 50th I wanted one, since I knew that an actual '54 and the top Custom Shop 50th Ann. model was way beyond our reach, I had to settle on the "cheaper" $1,700 model.I'm wondering why Fender didn't decide to do the same sort of thing for the 60th Ann. Model-at least I'd have half a chance of picking up one to honor my 60th. Maybe if we start saving now,I'll be able to pick up a 70th or 75th Ann. model-maybe I should get my name on the list now.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:02 pm
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guitslinger wrote:
Ten years ago when they released a 50th Ann.Strats it coincided with my 50th birthday and they had 3 different models at 3 different price points to choose from.Since it was my 50th I wanted one, since I knew that an actual '54 and the top Custom Shop 50th Ann. model was way beyond our reach, I had to settle on the "cheaper" $1,700 model.I'm wondering why Fender didn't decide to do the same sort of thing for the 60th Ann. Model-at least I'd have half a chance of picking up one to honor my 60th. Maybe if we start saving now,I'll be able to pick up a 70th or 75th Ann. model-maybe I should get my name on the list now.

It seems to me that they've done that this time. There are four distinct 60th Anniv guitars at four different price points, the highest at $5K.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:45 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Buxom wrote:
tl;dr FMIC is marketing to stupid people with money to burn.

In one respect your observation was corroberated by an article I read somewhere about the Custom Shop. The article saw the company catering to 40-something success stories...weekend guitar heroes...financially able to afford high end gear.


Bang on. I couldn't agree more.

Lately I have looked at the entire line-up and found very little if anything really appeals to me anymore, making me look at options elsewhere. Makes me wonder the 40+ demographic that Fender seem to be catering for, I don't think they appeal too much to the younger player these days. I mean, there seems to be a current trend for metal (I'm not a fan) and even see online, 80's bands are making comebacks.. So, we get told, "have you looked at Jackson/Charvel?.." Well, yes. I didn't have much choice, Sir. So I got one and sorry to say, its better than the Fender equivalent. Still not what i was after though- a Fender Strat/Tele with 'Fender' on the headstock... not a 'FMIC' brand. More than half of the current 'signature' endorsees I have never ever heard of until the Fender forum and google searches. I can't see many 'signature' names that aren't current or new comers- who are the latest guitar 'heroes' and where are there signature models? Instead we see relics and models that appeal to players that play the 'blooze' SRV licks and market to the 40yr+ clapton & hendrix clones. Not withstanding, they were great guitarists. But I'm just wanting something newer and those new players seem to be playing 'other' guitars...

It seems unlike of the 90's and early 2000's where there were Fender models that appealed.. whatever you were into, what ever style floats your boat- there was guaranteed a model that would cater to it. Now there seems to be nothing for the younger players that appeals.. Im talking about decent FR equipped Strat with proper fret sizing and decent pickups, Customshop ranges that consisted of models that weren't just relics etc.. like the custom set-neck models, HM and sparkle etc... pickups by Lace, Duncan, Dimarzio, not to mention Fender. Oh- colours, colours and colours..

An example- the nashville 'b-bender' tele.. clearly there is a market for an all american tele with a 'b-bender' gizmo... but there isn't enough of a market for a floyd equipped start made in USA despite the current music industry trends? So we get told, "have you looked at Jackson/Charvel?.." Well, yes. But I didn't have much choice, Sir.. :roll:

Ok, rant over. :oops:

But getting back to topic. It's A perfect marketing ploy to spark urgency. It's classic. tell them it's 'exclusive or limited' and they will come in droves clutching cash in their fists. never mind the models without the neck plate insignia :)

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:29 am
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I'm guessing that their intention, by acquiring so many of the familiar brands that they have, FMIC was putting as many toes int he water as they could. As you noted, years back, they had some very creative ideas including set neck models, Floyd Rose equipped guitars, and a beautiful guitar aimed at the heavy metal players. They won't continue what doesn't move and, I suppose, Charvel/Jackson became their 'metal' brand because the guitars that read "Fender'' weren't selling. Were it me, I'd bring back the Perfomer, with an FR bridge and humbuckers, and change that headstock to look more like the upper horn of that guitar. Then find some 'band on the run' who'd like an endorsement deal.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:40 am
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I would think with Relic instruments the market is there for a few reasons...

First, there is the collectors market. There are people who actually spend thousands upon thousands of dollars for guitars just because they are exclusive. These "limited editions" also fall into that category. Seems crazy to me. Even more mindboggling that some of them don't actually play them. Crazy, but hey. It's their money, and if they're willing to spend it. What the hell, right? Hell, I just took the plunge on my first American Vintage 57 Precision. I've been dying for one for almost a decade and was really, really bummed when they discontinued the model. Picked one up used for a STEAL just a couple of weeks ago. Still had the stock strings on it and looked like it hadn't been played more than a handful of times. The bass is gorgeous and plays and sings like a dream. Some people just like to buy pretty guitars just to have them. Makes no sense to me. Don't worry, she's already been gigged and I'll be putting plenty of miles on her from here on out.

Second, players who understand the feeling of a well broken in instrument. Whether they be pros, weekend warriors, or just hobbyists. The real irony here is how many people are turning up their noses at relics, but will sing the praises of their American Standard guitar with it's factory rolled fingerboard edges that they paid extra for. Which is simply a boutique appointment to give you the feeling of a well broken in neck out of the box. Well, Relic instruments are that just taken a step further. They give you the look and feel of a well broken in instrument out of the box. It's a boutique thing. The reason you like your American Standard neck for it's already broken in feel is the reason guys who like relics or the MIM Roadworn guitars like theirs. Kind of a pot calling the kettle black thing.

Third. Remember, some of the cats buying these relics are in their 60s and older. They may have parted ways with an old instrument and have no way to get it back. Financially or otherwise. Buying a brand new AVS, Classic Series or Custom Shop NOS model isn't going to give them their old trusty axe back. They might not gig at all, or only gig here and there. So they'll never put that wear back on. They want that piece back, and this may be the closest they can get to it. They might not have the time to put those decades of wear back on before the curtain falls.

Fourth, and from a practical standpoint this is the one I get. Say you really, really dig vintage broken in and battle scarred Fenders. No matter whether you're a pro, weekend warrior or hobbyist. Vintage Fenders cost a LOT of money. However, they may have also seen a LOT of abuse or even just need a lot of TLC. So these Relics allow you to spend less money in most cases, but allow you to get the look, feel, sound, of those instruments without the gamble that you're going to end up with an instrument that is unreliable or needs serious work. You're going to get an instrument that gives you that vibe, feel, tone and playability but with all the reliability of a brand new Fender straight out of the box. You don't have to play the guessing game of... "Is tonight the night that all those years catch up to her?"


Just my .02 cents. I don't own a relic. I'm not sure I would get one as I'm still gigging regularly so I'll likely put my share of wear and tear on my 57 RI. However, ask me again in 15-20 years? I might be gigging a lot less, or just jamming with friends. If I've got the money to burn a nice broken in top shelf reissue might strike my fancy. Who knows?

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:30 am
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Great points King.

And congratulations on your American Vintage. I think as far as the current line up goes, that’s the one grabbing my attention most. As far as dropping that much coin on a guitar. For me it’s simply an item on my ‘Bucket List’. Dropping a huge some of money (when I’m able) on a really nice guitar for the hell of it. Probably wouldn’t go for a Relic for my own reasons but IMO, you raise some fair points. As far as the guy that collects and doesn’t play, there’s an exec here that has 3 guitars hanging on his wall. One being a REALLY beautiful sunburst Tele. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that come down and to me it’s a crying shame that those guitars just sit there on the wall collecting dust in an office. For all I know this guy is a phenomenal player so not really judging. Just sad seeing instruments getting no attention like that.

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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:20 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
hey won't continue what doesn't move

That makes sense, but you also have to dare try something to see whether it'll move. My feeling is that FMIC is no longer run as a private company that dares to take small risks, but like a public company with major stockholders who are risk-averse and short-term profit minded. The IPO might not have happened, but the corporate mentality seems to have crept in all the same.

Personally, I don't want Fender to bring back HM, Performer or any other guitar that didn't sell as well as needed. I want them to learn from those experiences and come out with something new and better!
Fender is in the business of selling dreams, and I would like to see them sell more new dreams than broken dreams. And I refuse to believe that Fender is incapable of creating good [insert flavor] metal guitars and amps to compete with Schechter, Ibanez, GEGL, Orange and Mesa. It's like Fender doesn't want to admit that there are new genres of guitar music out there.


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Post subject: Re: This kind of 'stuff' bothers me.....
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:22 am
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I never really liked the relics. To me, they didn't have the right look, feel, or smell. All of the wear looks the same on them, so it's kind of strange to me.

That being said, picking up an actual beat to hell axe is what cured me of all of my Fender related woes, and that being said, this axe has caused me to sell 3, Well, 2 Fenders and a Squier. The feel of the neck, the pickups, the fact that it changed the smell of my room to cigarettes and must, I knew it was to be my #1, so it is.

Anyhow, I still love Fender, and will continue to search for the right Fender, the older I go, the more I like them, specifically the 80s and 90s MIJ and MIK Fenders, Fender Squier Series, and Squiers. There's a pocket of Fenders made from about 1987-1993 that have just all felt perfect to me. There was also a 1994 or 95 Made in India Squier that was simply wonderful, and the heaviest Stratocaster I've ever played. Maybe I'm jonesing for a Strat or Tele again, I don't know.

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