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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:54 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
Well, well, well...I must be the lucky one in this bunch. I bought my CAR 60's Classic Series Stratocaster that was an '07 model in 2012 and in was in brand new condition (no wear what so ever) and I paid only $475, that is darn near used prices.

My local Mom & Pop treat me quite well! If I see something and it is more than a couple years old, I always ask for a discount and they have always accommodated me.

Sorry to hear so many others have had some issues.

T2


That was a phenomenal buy! :!:

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Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:02 pm
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arth1 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
arth1 wrote:
If there's fret wear to the point that it needs dressing "really, really badly", it's not new. Neither "brand new" nor "new old stock". The condition is then used, whether it has been sold or not.


No, you're wrong. I didn't say fret wear. (which means it would need a RE-FRET) I said it needs fret dressing. Which is the filing down of the ends of frets to make them smooth and flush with the edge of the fretboard. It's a finishing technique. Not a repair, or maintenance. You just don't understand what the terms mean.


Be careful about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house.

Fret dressing to me and most everybody else means filing them down so they're even. You can dress them a couple of times before you need a re-fret.
http://avhguitarrepair.com/repair-blog/so-whats-in-a-fret-dress/
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/fret-dress/

Yes, clearly I am the one who "just don't understand what the terms mean". :D



Since you know so much about fretwork then you obviously know that it's also finishing work done on a bass when it is produced to make the neck play smoothly. So again, how does my "brand new" and "needs dressing" not compute to you? Oh, that's right. You're also the guy who thought rolling a fingerboard edge had to do with frets and not wood, too. Right, I'll get back to you when I need advice. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:55 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
We have that around here. There is a shop. Which I love because they treat me well, but they do have some questionable practices in this regard. They have a brand new 2008 American Standard Precision on the wall for it's original street price. Now, to be fair. That is considerably lower than a new 2014 American Standard. However, it's still there because it's heavy as hell and the frets need dressing really, really badly. It's boat anchor and the neck plays like crap. You'd think they'd drop the price or toss in the fret dressing to get it out the door to someone. Nope. It sits there. And will for a looooooooonnnngggg time. Likely until some poor kid comes in thinking he is getting a good deal.


"Now, to be fair" :lol: I watch guitars in every guitar store I visit and eventually they disappear. 8) Fret dress? I've done that before a gig with a matchbook cover. Boat anchor with a crappy neck? I have some stories about that too lol. Cost prohibitive, you have a point there.

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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:07 am
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I've bought a new guitar that was older as well.
It was in the back for a while then out front, and nobody anted it--except me & I couldn't afford it and then they put it on sale and I bought it.

I'll let you guess what it was/is.

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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:17 am
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Mom and Pop's don't do the volume of a big box or online giant. They do still however have to buy a certain dollar amount of FENDER products per year and keep a certain dollar amount of Fender product in inventory to qualify to keep their Fender franchise. A Fender franchise is a huge drawing card. Not selling everything they have to order to meet their minimum order requirement is partly the reason many dealers wind up with inventory that is years old.

This is what is going on in a lot of cases when you see older instruments being sold new at mom and pops. Often at least some of the excess Fender inventory isn't on display, but left boxed and in storage. These small dealers aren't trying to cheat you, just stay in business and keep their franchise because it is vital to the viability of their business, so they have to order a certain amount of product per year and not all of it sells but it all counts toward the inventory requirement.

The actual amount of Fender products each store has to order and inventory per year will vary based on a number of factors, so not every store will have the same order/inventory requirements to keep their franchise. Fender doesn't really care about whether they inventory all the items ordered or not just as long as the minimum inventory and order requirements are both met. So you will almost always wind up with situations like the ones outlined by other posters. It is only fair for them to sell a new six year old instrument based on the actual retail at the time they ordered it. What isn't fair would be trying to sell it based on the retail now. I don't know of any dealers that would take a 2008 Strat and mark it with a 2014 retail, but it might have happened somewhere. That would not be fair at all.

The local Mom & Pop has a surprisingly large inventory of new Fender Strats & Teles in sealed boxes in the basement that have been there for years. When sold they come with full warranty because they are new and never owned before. Deep discounting is not likely since the business would be losing money on it, but they shouldn't use today's list price as a reference point on a 6 year old instrument.

Typically it is not basses or amps that are ordered specifically to meet a minimum order requirement, but Strats and Teles and more Strats here. In fact the local Mom & Pop doesn't keep more than about 2 Fender basses in stock at any one time. I've never seen 3 there at once.


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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:04 am
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brotherdave wrote:
... The local Mom & Pop has a surprisingly large inventory of new Fender Strats & Teles in sealed boxes in the basement that have been there for years. When sold they come with full warranty because they are new and never owned before. Deep discounting is not likely since the business would be losing money on it, but they shouldn't use today's list price as a reference point on a 6 year old instrument...


Sounds like Bill's although it's hardly a small Mom & Pop place. I got to go down to the basement once to pick a guitar and it was almost a couple thousand square feet of stored and mostly boxed equipment. They had what looked like a couple dozen Les Pauls in original boxes plus the bunch upstairs.

My jaw dropped when I saw how much stuff they had stored.

But I have seen seen serious discounting on used amps. There is a Carvin V3 full stack sitting there at $999. Been there for almost 2 years plus another one. They bought out all the equipment of a bankrupt Christian music band and that was just a sample.


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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:24 pm
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There used to be a mom & pop (well, actually just a "pop", no mom that I ever saw) in my hometown. The dude had the same guitars on the displays for over two decades. He would occasionally sell a couple of "Johnson" student guitars, but you couldn't get him to sell you the "good" stuff--the G&L's, the occasional Fender or Gibson, whatever. He had a gorgeous lawsuit-era double-neck white Ibanez with beautiful inlay work all over the necks (modeled after the Gibson SG-bodied double-neck, whatever that model was called) in a display case--not for sale...by the way, don't ask!

He looked like a whip-thin Jerry Reed, except cleaner-cut with perfect hair and the most perfectly trimmed mustache in the history of the world. He dressed in Cowboy Chic circa 1972...even though this was the late 80's.

A friend wanted to buy a G&L SC3 from him, but he kept refusing to give a price. Finally he said, "I can't break up the set--you have to buy this G&L SC2 if you want that one..."
The two guitars weren't a matched set. Other than the fact that they were both "student" guitars (the SC series were very good US-made guitars, but a bit cheaper, with few aesthetic appointments) painted black, and from the same manufacturer, they were nothing alike.

The SC3 had a rosewood fretboard, matching headstock and was from ~1986. The SC2 had a maple fretboard, plain headstock and was made ~1984.

Well, to foil him, my friend asked me to buy the SC2, which I gladly did...I gave him the money, and he went down to buy both. The guy haggled and fussed and griped for an hour, tried to raise the price, and got mad...but he finally sold the guitars to him (us).

He did sell me a couple of harmonicas one time...which I promptly had to take apart and clean, because even though they were in their cases and wrapped in plastic, his constant Winston cigarette habit had permeated the combs and reeds with tar. Yuk...

Years later, he had a Coral Vincent Bell signature model in stock...these were weird-but-cool guitars; two lipstick pickups, very thin body (almost thinner than an SG) and a weird semi-opaque milky pickguard. It sounded awesome for playing slide--snarly and raw, but fatter than any lipsticks I had heard before or since.
I asked, even begged, the guy to sell the thing to me, but he wouldn't. "It's not complete, and I won't sell an incomplete guitar..." The screw-on "Coral" nameplate was missing from the headstock. It was still in his possession when he closed the store down.

Later, I heard a rumor that he was a drug dealer and the guitar shop was just a front. Outside of the fact that he stayed in business for over 20 years (usually drug fronts don't last that long), it wouldn't surprise me--he always tried to be intimidating and was very rude to every clean cut (obvious) "straight" (non-drug using) guy.

Oh well.

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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:11 pm
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Personally, I am convinced that the Dave Murray signature Strat that has been sitting in my local GC for almost 3 years now is waiting for me. Now if only $1800 of untraceable money would fall into my pocket or the Mrs. would stand for a monthly guitar payment... :cry:

They keep it behind the desk so it is likely not as bashed up as the average "new" guitar they have hanging on the wall!

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my gear:

Jackson USA Phil Collen PC-1
Warmoth Custom-Build Stratocaster (The Andersong)
Fender American Special Stratocaster
Squier J. Mascis Jazzmaster
Fender Mustang GT40
Eleven HeadRush w/ two Alto TS212 FRFRs


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Post subject: Re: Buying older, unsold guitars?
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:58 pm
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Tiger J wrote:
... I am convinced that the Dave Murray signature Strat that has been sitting in my local GC for almost 3 years now is waiting for me. Now if only $1800 of untraceable money would fall into my pocket ...

If it has been there three years, I bet if you placed fifteen $100 bills on the counter, they'd give it to you.

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