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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:05 am
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53magnatone wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:

Yeah, but there's the flip side to that aswell. Learning in that structured of an enviroment is detrimental to many players. Much in the way public schooling is to critical thinking. From what I've seen from the people who I know who have had classical training beyond the rudimentary level you get in high school. They tend to be very rigid in their approach to music. For the most part you don't start getting into theory and how it relates to creating and arranging music until later on. By then many have had the creativity bludgeoned out of them. I once played with a guy who could nail any solo you wanted without much practice. He did very well in the cover band circuit. However, when it came to original music it was a source of extreme frustration for him. He'd always ask "What should I play, what do you want to hear?" The band would always come back with "Play what you feel. What does the song make you want to say?". He'd just look at you with a blank stare, and get frustrated. Sitting around for decades playing music note for note by long dead composers does not sound like fun to me. It sounds like punching a time clock.


Since Musical notes on a page are fundamentally linear mathematical equations, which are learned ( :roll: ) and then computed without much emotion or creativity. A person who learns a certain program can repeat that program and variations of that program but if creavity wasn't present or isn't part of the consensus of that person, it's basically a mechanical exercise.
However, M.C. Esher was a brilliant Mathematician, yet his 4 dimensional etchings are revered and exceedingly difficult to recreate...

There is this fallacy that Classical musicians are numb automatons, then if that's the case where does Ihztack Pearlman, Natalie McMaster, John Williams, Hillary Hahn, Nadja Salerno Sonnenberg ( talk about an emotional creative player ) Nigel Kennedy, Anne Sophie Mutter, Gil Shaham, Lara St. John. Sharon Isbin is a renowned classical player as well as a University Professor yet she has collaborated with Mark O'Connor, Joan Baez and recently Steve Vai ... Those are all elite classical players who in no way sound drab and lifeless.
Granted there is a minority of classical players that are not capable of functioning outside of the box, but that is also very true in Blues, RB, Rock. Many players cannot improvise to save their soul, they may know all the scales and be able to repeat all of them, but repetition is not the same as taking a scale and transposing it to a different key while at the same time fluently and seamlessly returning to the Coda... Adding emotion to their playing is just not in their wiring..



Where did I say that they had no feeling? I never said that. I showed an example that I have personal experience with as the "worst case" example I have personally seen. I've also seen this with singers who want to sing for a band but when confronted with an original song cannot create their own cadence or melody. Because they are used to being given direction, or a set of rules to follow.

I said that learning in that matter seems to make some of them rigid. Which it does. I'd think most musicians who make it a lifetime endeavor get to a similar point eventually. You can woodshed your chops playing other people's work and mastering the technical aspects of your instrument in a structured learning environment where they ease you in to the knowledge that allows you to create. Or you can start out with few rules and eventually if you have a true passion for it you learn the mechanics and the "whys and hows" on your own through independent study.

I think both ways of learning music have people who eventually lose their way. On the classical structured side you get guys like I mentioned. On the other side you get the guys who refuse to acknowledge things like chord theory and spend hours trying to come up with "cool riffs" that are easily discernable to anyone who understands musical theory. (I've had the unfortunate experience of dealing with them as well) Both ways of learning have their merits. Both have their disadvantages.

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:12 am
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Karl Hungus wrote:
53magnatone wrote:


Purty!

So provided you could work at it every day without interruption, how long would it take you to have a completed instrument?


It takes a while, just cutting and matching, gluing the bodies took a few weeks as I didn't have everything decided... It takes about a year for the complete guitar, bear in mind that were I not in school full time and work, I would be able to devote much more time and a quicker turn around..
Optimally I would say 3 to 6 months for a completed instrument, curing of the finish taking up most of that time... I have 3 one piece ash blanks ( 2 Strats. 1 Tele ) awaiting to be routed into their final shape, thus I will be ordering necks and parts from Fender soon.....
I have some build threads on this Forum if you'd like to know more, I don't want to hijack this thread anymore than I have....

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:25 pm
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Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:33 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

Many of us have pianos.

What's expensive is strings for Harding fiddle (which I used to play). It has 8 or 9 strings, but that's not the real cost: The G string is traditionally catgut handwound with silver.

Image

... and in turn, that string eats up your bow, which is real horsehair.


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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:32 pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... kyaes5Ul1k

I couldn't help but watch this,, with it being kinda technical. Jeff's tone is really sweet. Not the most expensive bass...


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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:11 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

I don't imagine they change them as often as most of use do.

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:51 pm
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zontar wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

I don't imagine they change them as often as most of use do.


Yes, strings likely last longer when you don't mash them against hard metal frets, bend them several half-tones nor hit them forcefully with plectrums. And I would also think that they change individual strings, not entire sets.
When did you restring your piano last?


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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:08 pm
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I took cello my freshman year in the spring semester at Baylor University back in 1981. My professor, Michael Masters, played for Harry Chapin before he got his professor's gig. I don't know how much my standard issue cello cost, but when they refused to let me take it home for the summer, I dropped it altogether.


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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:44 pm
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zontar, cool article/perspective, thanks for posting. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:07 pm
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arth1 wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

Many of us have pianos.

What's expensive is strings for Harding fiddle (which I used to play). It has 8 or 9 strings, but that's not the real cost: The G string is traditionally catgut handwound with silver.
.

Traditional Harp strings are gut and thats a lot of strings and many use them over the nylon.

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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:41 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
arth1 wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
Imagine buying a set of strings for a Harp, 500 to 800 dollars :shock:

Many of us have pianos.

What's expensive is strings for Harding fiddle (which I used to play). It has 8 or 9 strings, but that's not the real cost: The G string is traditionally catgut handwound with silver.
.

Traditional Harp strings are gut and thats a lot of strings and many use them over the nylon.


True, and they sometimes also use silver gimped gut bass strings, just like the G string for a harding fiddle. Nice, but expensive:

$40.50 for a single string
And they lasted a few weeks at best. I hope harp players don't go through theirs that quickly.

Now that I play guitar, I feel it's truly a low upkeep instrument. A few tubes every couple of years, some cheap strings every few weeks, a bit of polish and lemon oil - not a lot of expenses, really!


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Post subject: Re: Spoiled Guitarists: That Guitar Costs How Much?!
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:07 am
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arth1 wrote:
When did you restring your piano last?

Um, never?
At least I don't recall my parents ever having someone come in to do that--although they did have someone come in to tune it.
That's not exactly cheap.

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