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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:47 pm
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arth1 wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
GilgaFrank wrote:
When life gives you illegal timber, you put a clever spin on it and make a profit from it.

If it was illegal they would not have returned it. This is good marketing.


Some of the wood was indeed not returned. They acknowledged the illegality and forfeited the rights to $262,000 worth of wood, in addition to the fines. Note that these guitars have no Madagascar Ebony.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/gibson-guitar-settles-admits-exotic-wood-violation_n_1756969.html

The word alleged is used in that story and the sad fact it's often better for a business to give in and deal then to face the expense of a fight with a government entity. Financial decision sounds to me.
I like the marketing idea! Go for it Gibson!

Read below :wink:

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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:14 am
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There are a couple of things that maybe should be noted here:

1) For an inexpensive Les Paul, this one will truly be a limited run due to the finite amount of "government" fretboard wood. Most other "limited runs" are really only limited by the number of customers they can find to buy one. Because of this, there might some true collectibility here. No doubt this guitar will likely hold its modest value very well.
2) The guitar lists for $1099. That means it will sell for around $800. That is pretty cheap considering the DF pickups ALONE would you set you back at least $250.

Am I the only one here that is a little tempted by this??

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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:38 am
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arth1 wrote:
They acknowledged the illegality and forfeited the rights to $262,000 worth of wood, in addition to the fines.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/gibson-guitar-settles-admits-exotic-wood-violation_n_1756969.html


Arth1, in the article you linked here, Gibson did not acknowledged the illegality of the wood, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Ignacia Moreno of the Justice Department's Environment and Natural Resources Division did.

Henry's comment implied that it simply would have been too expensive to fight in court, and that Gibson was inappropriately targeted:

CEO Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We felt compelled to settle as the costs of proving our case at trial would have cost millions of dollars and taken a very long time to resolve. This allows us to get back to the business of making guitars. An important part of the settlement is that we are getting back the materials seized in a second armed raid on our factories and we have formal acknowledgement that we can continue to source rosewood and ebony fingerboards from India, as we have done for many decades."

CEO Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We feel that Gibson was inappropriately targeted, and a matter that could have been addressed with a simple contact by a caring human being representing the Government. Instead, the Government used violent and hostile means with the full force of the U.S. Government and several armed law enforcement agencies costing the taxpayer millions of dollars and putting a job-creating U.S. manufacturer at risk and at a competitive disadvantage. This shows the increasing trend on the part of the Government to criminalize rules and regulations and treat U.S. businesses in the same way drug dealers are treated. This is wrong and it is unfair. I am committed to working hard to correct the inequity that the law allows and ensure there is fairness, due process, and the law is used for its intended purpose of stopping bad guys and stopping the very real deforestation of our planet."

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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:48 am
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01GT eibach wrote:
2) The guitar lists for $1099. That means it will sell for around $800.

More like $700, if judging by what the $1099 LPJ goes for.

01GT eibach wrote:
Am I the only one here that is a little tempted by this??

Quite possibly. It's not like they made it out of the illegally sourced Madagascar Ebony that was at the heart of the matter, only the legal wood which was caught in the raid and returned after the investigation.


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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:01 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Arth1, in the article you linked here, Gibson did not acknowledged the illegality of the wood, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Ignacia Moreno of the Justice Department's Environment and Natural Resources Division did.

It's part of the settlement that they do acknowledge that.
"It is understood that Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility for the conduct set forth in Appendix A."

The full text of the settlement (scroll down past the damage control from the Gibson CEO and read the actual settlement)

But anyhow, that's not the wood that Gibson makes these new guitars from anyhow. They're spinning like a dirndl.


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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:55 pm
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arth1 wrote:
It's part of the settlement that they do acknowledge that.
"It is understood that Gibson accepts and acknowledges responsibility for the conduct set forth in Appendix A."

Arth, again, that is the text of the settlement, not the statement issues by the actual company, Gibson. This is Gibson's position on the matter:
strings10927 wrote:
CEO Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We felt compelled to settle as the costs of proving our case at trial would have cost millions of dollars and taken a very long time to resolve.

I once took a plea bargain of a 'failure to wear seatbelt' to avoid points on my license for a different violation. I had to acknowledge it in a court of law. The thing is, I was wearing my seatbelt that day. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:13 pm
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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:51 pm
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I still say the whole thing was politically motivated on the to begin with, which isn't surprising, considering other things that's happened in the past few years. That's all I'm going to say about it, though. I don't feel like getting into a flame war over politics, and this isn't the place for it anyway.

I'll just say good for Gibson. If somebody doesn't like it, then don't buy it. There are plenty of other choices and selections of instruments, anyway.

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Post subject: Re: When life gives you lemons, you make...
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:20 pm
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Thanks for posting yoda, good for Gibson!

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