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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:40 am
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arth1 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
It's so bad that the biggest, most popular cover band in the area that's been rolling strong for over a decade tried an original not too long ago. As soon as they said, "This one is ours" half the crowd immediately decides to take a smoke break. Good times. :?

It's understandable, though. It's not that they don't want original songs, but that they want songs they recognize, whether original or not. When a song is familiar, you don't have to pay as much attention to it, and can instead just enjoy it. That doesn't mean that people don't want to hear something new, but that a pub concert is not the right venue to give people something new. They came to relax and perhaps dance, not to learn new songs.

So how do you introduce new stuff then, if you're a pub band? Only if you have managed to catch their undivided attention, and have a captive audience. Which means you have to be Good with a capital G. Otherwise, it will send people smoking, buying drinks or going to the bathroom, and will lower the overall atmosphere.
If your stage presence isn't strong enough to grab the audience by the short and curlies, you need to invest more work on that than on writing songs, and in the mean time be the minstrels that the audience came to hear.



We do alright. We do a mix of covers and originals that's about 2/3s covers and 1/3 originals. It gives people things they know, and our music is tight and moves enough that they don't lose interest. Some of our originals catch on pretty good. However, people around here don't really come out to dance. That crowd is slim and is mainly attracted to the DJs at the Ladies Nights.

The biggest cover band in this area is a hard rock/metal cover band. That's the vast majority of the bar crowd around here. Besides one or two bigger country bars. There's nothing wrong with that band that got walked out on, and there was nothing wrong with their song. (which was one song in 4+ hours of covers) They are very good at what they do. Let's put it this way. The "modern rock" station around here keeps early Alice and Chains, Nirvana, and Stone Temple Pilots in heavy rotation.

To say that "you just need to work on your craft" is laughable. Listen to the radio. You think that's craftsmanship? There are musicians that spent decades in bars playing better music than has ever gotten a record deal. If you think the average audience member wanted well crafted danceable music we'd all still be playing Motown. People for decades have ate up what the media has fed them.

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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:09 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
To say that "you just need to work on your craft" is laughable. Listen to the radio. You think that's craftsmanship? There are musicians that spent decades in bars playing better music than has ever gotten a record deal. If you think the average audience member wanted well crafted danceable music we'd all still be playing Motown. People for decades have ate up what the media has fed them.

Looking back over more than a half century, having been in the business, and had notable family in the business at several levels, writing, recording, producing and performing, here's my 'two cents.' Your audience is buying you as a product. You're either selling a message, a mission, or pure entertainment, or a combination of all three, depending upon your musical product. Hence you were Simon and Garfunkel, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Crosby, Stills and Nash, Cream, The Allman Brothers, Santana, The Ramones, Metallica, Kiss, Guns and Roses, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Stone Temple Pilots, etc...using these as examples of artists representing styles and genres....and on and on and on. If you were the likes of Danny Gatton or Roy Buchanan or any other of their ilk, yours is a niche audience with a tremendous amount of respect and awe for your skill and trying to 'cop' as much as they could about how you did what you do. To the general public, the media is the arbiter of what's there to be recognized as 'worthy' because, in the end, it is a product or service which is being offered for sale in a mass market and, in the end, if it's out there in the market place, it's likely 'worthy', it catches attention and, if the 'ear' is pleased, the demand will grow. But it has to get out there. I recall the story of how "Rush" broke into the States. A DJ at small radio station in the Midwest
liked what was heard and started playing it. The rest is history. If circumstances in 'the business' frustrate you, earn your keep at another vocation, and pursue your music simply for the purity of it and persevere. If it's fortune and fame you seek for your work you'll simply have to be patient enough to hope that caprice will work in your favor because, as you have well observed, there's a wealth of unrecognized talent out there equal or better to what is currently, or has been, in the mass market place. No matter how the product will be introduced and disseminated, independently or by the industry's puppeteers, the basic supply and principles of economics will out. Like it or not, it is what it is.

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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:22 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
To say that "you just need to work on your craft" is laughable. Listen to the radio. You think that's craftsmanship? There are musicians that spent decades in bars playing better music than has ever gotten a record deal. If you think the average audience member wanted well crafted danceable music we'd all still be playing Motown. People for decades have ate up what the media has fed them.

Looking back over more than a half century, here's what I see. Your audience is buying you as a product. Your either selling a message, a mission, or pure entertainment, or a combination of all three, depending upon your musical product. Hence you were Simon and Garfunkel, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Crosby, Stills and Nash, Cream, The Ramones, Metallica, Kiss, Guns and Roses, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Stone Temple Pilots, etc...using these as examples of artists representing styles and genres....and on and on and on. If you were the likes of Danny Gatton or Roy Buchanan or any other of their ilk, your followers were a niche audience with a tremendous amount of respect and awe for your skill and trying to 'cop' as much as they could about how you did what you do. To the general public, the media is the arbiter of what's there to be recognized as 'worthy' because, in the end, it is a product or service which is being offered for sale in a mass market and, in the end, if it's out there in the market place, it catches attention and, if the 'ear' is pleased, the demand will grow. I recall the story of how "Rush" broke into the States. A DJ at small radio station in the Midwest
liked what was heard and started playing it. The rest is history. If circumstances in 'the business' frustrate you, earn your keep at another vocation, and pursue your music simply for the purity of it and persevere. If it's fortune and fame you seek for your work you'll simply have to be patient enough to hope that caprice will work in your favor because, as you have well observed, there's goldmine of unrecognized talent out there equal or better to what is currently, or has been, in the mass market place. It is what it is.



Actually, I'm not too upset where I'm at right now. I have a day job that more than pays the bills. A steady gigging band that does a mix of covers and originals that allows me both to make a little scratch on the side to afford good gear and extra pocket cash. (Finally took the plunge on an American Vintage 57 RI that I've been wanting for years. :mrgreen: It's a good feeling) It gets me out there most weekends playing and watching people have a good time. Which is what it's all about. Plus, two of my bandmates and I do an acoustic side "thing" where we play some of ours, some different and same covers, and get a little more creative with the arrangements. So that keeps the creative juices fresh. So I'm in a pretty good place right now. I'm well past the point of having any delusions about "making it". I'd be happy doing this for years to come.

However, It does get a tad frustrating watching people in the scene with you who you know have a lot of talent and great material go unappreciated. It's sad because our music scene loses a lot of great people who go off to bigger markets in hopes of finding stardom and some appreciation. Some, like Joe, find it. Others don't. However, it's sad to watch these people wrestle with it. To work so hard in a community and the community not support them. Yet line up to listen to tired covers of mediocre mainstream music. (The stuff we cover included) Sometimes you just look at people and wonder why? Why is something made in a studio thousands of miles away by people you don't know and that contains nothing really special in terms of musicianship so much more appealing than the artistic expression of your neighbors? Because it's on TV, or Radio it "Must be good"? Sometimes it's a real head scratcher.

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2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:23 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Sometimes it's a real head scratcher.

So it is. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:45 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
To say that "you just need to work on your craft" is laughable.


Who said that? You need that too, sure, but that's not what brings success and makes people want to hear your new stuff. To get there, you need to have a presence. Stage presence, radio presence, ability to win over promoters. Your craft as a musician is less important. Better is better, but it was not pure musical skills that made Bob Dylan, Jim Morrison and Patti Smith into gods, while most people haven't even heard of Al Di Meola.

TheKingofPain wrote:
Listen to the radio. You think that's craftsmanship? There are musicians that spent decades in bars playing better music than has ever gotten a record deal. If you think the average audience member wanted well crafted danceable music we'd all still be playing Motown. People for decades have ate up what the media has fed them.

Part of the craft of being an entertainer is to get people to play you and want you.
How good a musician you are has less to do with it than your presence.
And no, they do not want "well crafted danceable music" - they want music they are familiar with, whether they have been familiarized through radio, friends, or these days, the internet.


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Post subject: Re: Buying a Fender during the 1950's & other questions
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:13 pm
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Interesting posts, cool thread, Brother Dave has the info, KOP knows his bass guitar too. this movie put the Fender Precision Bass on the youth culture's minds lol

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