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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:52 am
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I am sort of bumping this thread after doing some research...

and with the knowledge that other lefties troll these forums.

HAMER by far offers more selections for Gibson-y type guitars than Gibson or for that matter, Epiphone. If I'm in the market....well, heck...

As for archtops? Wellll.....There's Heritage and Eastman.

And, Eastwood makes some fine vintage guitars.

And, I can't forget about Leo Fender's other company, G&L.

Epiphones are pretty commonplace....but for the most part? Eh, it's a righties world. To be fair about this, I can't really say much about the Epiphones other than my LP custom....BUT this is arguably one of their higher-end products as far as lkefty guitars go. They don't offer a whole lot in terms of their archtops, their ultras, their elites....or anything else in the left-handed model.


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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:04 am
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Your'e right. I'm not a lefty, but I do think that there should be more options for leftys.

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:39 pm
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hottrod wrote:
Your'e right. I'm not a lefty, but I do think that there should be more options for leftys.


There should be, but it all boils down to demand. Only so many get sold and then usually only certain models. It costs a company a lot of money to run just a few lefty guitars. Even more if you're talking about archtops. It's not fait, but there it is anyway.

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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:07 pm
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I thought this was interesting......

Apparently, Epiphone's been making their guitar necks on some of their solid body models not out of mahogany....

but....agathis.

That's not what they're advertising. (I'm sure there are luthiers who frequent this forum who know the consequences of making NECKS out of something like agathis!)

I do own one of these. I'm not a happy camper today.


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:37 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
I thought this was interesting......

Apparently, Epiphone's been making their guitar necks on some of their solid body models not out of mahogany....

but....agathis.

That's not what they're advertising. (I'm sure there are luthiers who frequent this forum who know the consequences of making NECKS out of something like agathis!)

I do own one of these. I'm not a happy camper today.
My LP Custom Plus has a Maple neck and the body is Mahogany with a Flame Maple top

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Post subject: Do any of you own one?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:06 pm
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Do any of you own one?


secretsounds
I'd stay away from the real cheap Epiphone stuff, it's crap. Most of their mid to higher priced line like the Les Paul Custom are nice guitars for the money.
dgonz
I "might" consider a high-end Epi, but at that point, I'd just save a bit more and get the Gibson. In general, Gibsons have always been way overpriced to me, compared to what else you can get for the same amount of money. I'd much rather have a PRS custom 24 or 513 than a Les Paul anyday.

But for acoustics, some of the better epis are a good value. The Epi Humminbird in particular is only a few hundred, solid top, looks good, and plays and sounds real nice for the cash. And I'm REAL funny about acoustics.

highbinder
When it comes to Gibsons you're paying from the name. I've heard that you can import an Edwards (I think? Might be Burny) for cheaper from Japan, and they still use unchambered bodies and full tenon neck joins, and give the high end Gibsons a real run for their money! All comes down to whether you want the name 'Gibson' on the headstock. If I had the money sure and wanted an LP I'd get a Gibby, but otherwise hell no - I'd get a copy from another maker.
giutarlegend1218
i always ask that question to myself...

gratz
i agree with highbender i'd rather get a low end prs than a high end epi in any model

stratman
i think that they are. they're not my favorite guitar, and i would never buy one.

I was curious because you never say "My Epi is a POS" or anything like that. It sounds like you're basing an opinion based on what some other un-informed individual said or heard some one else say.
Reffering to another post about black fingers; most guitar players change out the factory strings whith the strings they probably got gratis from the dealer; meaning to say RIGHT AWAY because the strings are usually cheaper and there only for show because any player that have 4 or 5 bucks will be changing to what they are used to anyway...
Maybe your friend is a bit too frugal...

Bad-mouthing anything without personal expeiance could be bad karma.
There are some here that ran into a real buzz saw saying they "hate those " referring to a pic that was posted; ask around....


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Post subject: Re: Do any of you own one?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:41 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
My LP Custom Plus has a Maple neck and the body is Mahogany with a Flame Maple top


I would have liked to have gotten a model with a maple top, but they don't offer those to left-handed players. Options are pretty limited with that line.


dna9656 wrote:
Do any of you own one?

secretsounds

dgonz

highbinder

giutarlegend1218

gratz


stratman


I was curious because you never say "My Epi is a POS" or anything like that. It sounds like you're basing an opinion based on what some other un-informed individual said or heard some one else say.
Reffering to another post about black fingers; most guitar players change out the factory strings whith the strings they probably got gratis from the dealer; meaning to say RIGHT AWAY because the strings are usually cheaper and there only for show because any player that have 4 or 5 bucks will be changing to what they are used to anyway...
Maybe your friend is a bit too frugal...

Bad-mouthing anything without personal expeiance could be bad karma.
There are some here that ran into a real buzz saw saying they "hate those " referring to a pic that was posted; ask around....


I can't speak for them...

But yes, I DO own one....and I've invested a lot into it, both in terms of time, and money...

And if I feel like bad mouthing Epiphone over this revelation (and the legal disclaimer...agathis, a very soft, cheap wood that has no business buing utilized for a neck, can also be technically coined as "commercial grade mahogany") I will do as such.

My LP custom was lemon-y and had bad karma surrounding it even BEFORE I got it. First issue out the gate...the online place that was selling it (gosh, what a miserable experience) was advertising the hell out of them...so I ordered one:

"OH, we're out of stock." What? Then WHY are you advertising it?

Grrr...

So, I have to wait 45 additional days. I finally get it. I pull it out of its shipping box.....Well, it's not EXACTLY what the pic looks like. In fact, a lot of the gold hardware already looks faded.

Did I send it back? Hindsight 20/20, I should have...but instead, I kept it because I didn't want to wait another 3 months for a replacement. (such is the world of lefties.)

So, I take it home...and the first thing I notice? Yes, the strings are garbage. Tossed those, and put some new ones on there. But despite the string change (and the half a dozen string changes since) I still get some black residue on my hands...

That's not the strings, man.

I also had some awful fret buzz on this guitar starting at the 10th fret and travelling all the way to the 17th fret. The action was WAY off. I set the action and intonation based on factory specs. Still....a ton of fret buzz. The bridge saddles rattled...I fixed that by shoving derbis in there.

And the pickups....muddy. Looking back now, I think the bridge pickup needs a 1 meg pot to brighten it up. Volume wise they're comparable with the 490/498 pups in the Gibsons...but they're nothin' to write home about.

But, more on that later. Still working on a bridge which has rattling saddles, and is brand new...I'm getting pretty angry by that time...

After doing that (this is a midranged price guitar...don't care what name is on the headstock) I was p.o.'d enough to go to musician's friend and write a scatching review on this guitar. I didn't want anyone else to feel like they had gotten a lemon themselves.

But...lemon or not. I'm stuck with it at this point. So....I start considering what needs to be done with this guitar.

First thing's first....I take it to a local repair shop and talk about potential upgrades to it. He has it for over 3 weeks...doesn't call back. I get pissed about that and call the store. After haggling with him, he agreed tto cut a bone nut for it, verify the truss rod and check the action and intonation.

I get it back a week later (sheesh...how long does it take to cut a nut, anyway?) The tone is much better. The action is still garbage...I changed that myself. It plays a little better....not as much fret buzz (now predominantly across the 14th to 17th frets) but a marked improvement.

Soon after this...quit my job. No more trips to Iraq (6 times is enough) By this time I'm spending an hour or two a night not practicing, but just MESSING with this guitar. It's getting ridiculous. Still, though...I have to move, so I pack up my stuff and drive across the USA.

I pass idle time by upgrading this Epiphone in various motel rooms across the United States.

First, it got top of the line Gibson humbuckers in it (Burstbuker Pros w Alcino V's). THAT made a huge difference. Next, the bridge was bastardized by me when I found some All Parts saddles off a replacement bridge for a Gibson that would fit. Then, I did another truss rod adjustment myself and raised the action slightly above the manufactured spec of 4/64th of an inch off the high E string while jacking the stop bar on the TOM all the way down.

I've messed with it in a serious way 2 times since then. I am now down to fret buzz in one specific spot....B string, 19th fret. I don't think I'm going to get it any better than that.

Of course, spending all of this time with the guitar....yeah, I start to like it a bit. In fact, I probably play this one more than my Gibson LP Studio because that guitar is a solid slab, and without binding across the neck, my hands feel sticky afterward. I pretty much use it for recording, and I have no intentions of travellign with it at all.

Then I read this about the neck and the cheap ataghtis...which actually goes a long way to explain why so many Epiphones are on the market right now with broken necks...it's not the players fault....

So, where does that leave me? With a guitar I probably spent close to a thousand bucks on with a cheap $@! neck. There it is. It sounds good, but to be honest I'm going to have to be incredibly careful whenever i do anything from change the strings to additional truss rod adjustments.

Agathis doesn't have the tensile strength for neck joints. It really doesn't. When the neck snaps on this guitar, I'm not going to be suprised.

IN addition, I am considering some really, really low end guitars to play "mad scientist with"....I might get another Epiphone, but I'm not going to spend over 200 bucks on it. It's not worth it. (in fact, if I get attached to that one? Well, at least it's a bolt on model and I can get a replacement neck for it.)

Or, if Fender or Squier's got something at a good price with humbuckers that is cheap enough to justify me butchering the guitar, I'm down with that.

But in terms of Epiphone? Man, after reading that today? I am sooo leery about this guitar which I've invested so much into. I don't think I'd spend money on a midranged guitar. (too bad, too. I was thinking about the Iommi SG with those hot pickups for a hard rock/metal guitar...I'm really going to have to reconsider this.)

If someone can sell me on an Epi they've had for longer than 10 years (and under these circumstances that point won't be hit until 2012 with this generation of guitars because the plant in China only opened in '02) I'd be all ears to consider doing a large investment into another.

IMHO...speaking from experience...let the buyer beware...especially if agathis has been the common wood used in all Epiphone solid bodies and archtops advertised with "mahagony" necks....

2 cents.


Last edited by The_Sentry on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Do any of you own one?
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:48 pm
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dna9656 wrote:
Do any of you own one?


secretsounds
I'd stay away from the real cheap Epiphone stuff, it's crap. Most of their mid to higher priced line like the Les Paul Custom are nice guitars for the money.
dgonz
I "might" consider a high-end Epi, but at that point, I'd just save a bit more and get the Gibson. In general, Gibsons have always been way overpriced to me, compared to what else you can get for the same amount of money. I'd much rather have a PRS custom 24 or 513 than a Les Paul anyday.

But for acoustics, some of the better epis are a good value. The Epi Humminbird in particular is only a few hundred, solid top, looks good, and plays and sounds real nice for the cash. And I'm REAL funny about acoustics.

highbinder
When it comes to Gibsons you're paying from the name. I've heard that you can import an Edwards (I think? Might be Burny) for cheaper from Japan, and they still use unchambered bodies and full tenon neck joins, and give the high end Gibsons a real run for their money! All comes down to whether you want the name 'Gibson' on the headstock. If I had the money sure and wanted an LP I'd get a Gibby, but otherwise hell no - I'd get a copy from another maker.
giutarlegend1218
i always ask that question to myself...

gratz
i agree with highbender i'd rather get a low end prs than a high end epi in any model

stratman
i think that they are. they're not my favorite guitar, and i would never buy one.

I was curious because you never say "My Epi is a POS" or anything like that. It sounds like you're basing an opinion based on what some other un-informed individual said or heard some one else say.
Reffering to another post about black fingers; most guitar players change out the factory strings whith the strings they probably got gratis from the dealer; meaning to say RIGHT AWAY because the strings are usually cheaper and there only for show because any player that have 4 or 5 bucks will be changing to what they are used to anyway...
Maybe your friend is a bit too frugal...

Bad-mouthing anything without personal expeiance could be bad karma.
There are some here that ran into a real buzz saw saying they "hate those " referring to a pic that was posted; ask around....
DNA I have two at this time and have bought two and givin to my son and I can not say anything bad about any of them. In fact those who have played my one Lp said they would love to have it. It is much better then the Gibby Studio that I had.

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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:10 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
I thought this was interesting......

Apparently, Epiphone's been making their guitar necks on some of their solid body models not out of mahogany....

but....agathis.

That's not what they're advertising. (I'm sure there are luthiers who frequent this forum who know the consequences of making NECKS out of something like agathis!)

I do own one of these. I'm not a happy camper today.
How did you identifify the wood as Agathis?

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:31 pm
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I smell a Class Action law suit brewing.

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Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:42 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.


Hmmm.....Actually, I did not have these included with my shipped Epiphone. I had a tag that "someone" verified the action and intonation...but checking it myself...it was off.

Way off. (and no, no one signed their name to it, either. I also got no tag implying that action and intonation was checked in the US prior to shipment.)

I don't think it helps that I'm a leftie, either.

I dunno. All I can say is unless you're playin' it before you buy it, let the buyer beware...especially with something like an Epiphone made in China.

Just my opinion....

Actually, If you buy it from any sort of a reputable on line store, the buyer doesn't have to beware. they can return anything for any reason for up to 30 days of recieving the item purchased. It's called Buyers Remorse. There's even recourse against private parties that misrepresent what they sell on line.

And your advice on cheap guitars is good advice, but goes triple for expensive guitars. Expensive in no way guarantees quality, especialy where Gibson is concerned. I saw Fret Glue on a $2500 Les Paul in Guitar Center, and a "Less Than Flush" inlay in the headstock of another. And in the Acoustic room ther's a $1800 J45 with swirl marks in the finish, right above the sound hole.


hA.....

Oddly enough....I bought mine from Musician's Friend. And, I had to wait an additional 45 days because even though they were advertising the heck out of it, they were 'out of stock' once it was ordered.

In any case....I probably should have just went to another retail chain. I didn't because I didn't want to wait 6 months to a year for a replacement.

(and, because it's doubtful that leftie models get the same amount of attention, the chances were pretty high I would have sent back the guitar again and again. It just got to the point where I just took the lemon, and forced as much lemonade out of it as possible.)

i herd there built realy well and gibson paul players
are also playing epiphone pauls. i personaly would
like to try one out.


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:53 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
I thought this was interesting......

Apparently, Epiphone's been making their guitar necks on some of their solid body models not out of mahogany....

but....agathis.

That's not what they're advertising. (I'm sure there are luthiers who frequent this forum who know the consequences of making NECKS out of something like agathis!)

I do own one of these. I'm not a happy camper today.
How did you identifify the wood as Agathis?


Personal testimony from someone else who was at a shop, friendly with the owner, and saw a damaged LP custom (same model as mine, but right handed and arctic white) that saw the wood underneath the finish on that broken guitar that had been damaged in shipping.

The timing was sort of funny too when I learned about this....I also debate these guitars frequently, and someone was trying to tell me you didn't have to be cautious when making neck adjustments on the guitar.

Hehehehehe....sure....

Don't get me wrong....I like my Epiphone...but it's not, nor will it ever quite sound like my Gibson Les Paul. There it is. Now, if you've got a model with a "mahogany body" (or in legalese what is technically considered "commercial mahogany) and a maple top? You will probably get closer than I did.

But, it's not...quite the same. And, while fixing mine, I played a lot of other Epiphones, and viewed other Epiphones verifying neck adjustments and action. (At one store I thought I was going to get booted for doing this...but, they let me do it when I explained why.)

I also started by duplicating all of the specs on my Gibson to that Epiphone, and worked it from there. I think the guitar plays great now...but not because it played or sounded great from the factory...

For the most part, I did those things myself to make it play and sound great.

But on this wood? Yes, I would be leery about it. Unless your Epiphone specifically states "maple top" in the catalog, or it's a bolt on neck which can be replaced.....

I think that's a fair enough thing to consider....


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:57 pm
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highwayoneplayer wrote:
i herd there built realy well and gibson paul players
are also playing epiphone pauls. i personaly would
like to try one out.


A lot of people get into Epiphones because Gibsons are just getting ridiculously expensive. Who wants to take a 2500 dollar guitar to a club these days?

So, they get the cheaper Epiphone and play out with that. (sounded like smart stuff to me as well.) And, let's face it, there aren't a lot of archtops out there that can be had for a reasonable price.

To be fair? Sure...test 'em out. Also, test out the Gibsons. I don't know how their marketing model works, but they now have 16 solid body electrics all priced under a 1000 dollars. Some are better than others.

(But test driving? Hell, if I was right handed? Kid in a candy store. I'd test drive every stinkin' guitar in that store and then some! Go for it, man!)


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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:30 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
I thought this was interesting......

Apparently, Epiphone's been making their guitar necks on some of their solid body models not out of mahogany....

but....agathis.

That's not what they're advertising. (I'm sure there are luthiers who frequent this forum who know the consequences of making NECKS out of something like agathis!)

I do own one of these. I'm not a happy camper today.
How did you identifify the wood as Agathis?


Personal testimony from someone else who was at a shop, friendly with the owner, and saw a damaged LP custom (same model as mine, but right handed and arctic white) that saw the wood underneath the finish on that broken guitar that had been damaged in shipping.

The timing was sort of funny too when I learned about this....I also debate these guitars frequently, and someone was trying to tell me you didn't have to be cautious when making neck adjustments on the guitar.

Hehehehehe....sure....

Don't get me wrong....I like my Epiphone...but it's not, nor will it ever quite sound like my Gibson Les Paul. There it is. Now, if you've got a model with a "mahogany body" (or in legalese what is technically considered "commercial mahogany) and a maple top? You will probably get closer than I did.

But, it's not...quite the same. And, while fixing mine, I played a lot of other Epiphones, and viewed other Epiphones verifying neck adjustments and action. (At one store I thought I was going to get booted for doing this...but, they let me do it when I explained why.)

I also started by duplicating all of the specs on my Gibson to that Epiphone, and worked it from there. I think the guitar plays great now...but not because it played or sounded great from the factory...

For the most part, I did those things myself to make it play and sound great.

But on this wood? Yes, I would be leery about it. Unless your Epiphone specifically states "maple top" in the catalog, or it's a bolt on neck which can be replaced.....

I think that's a fair enough thing to consider....
Lp Custom Plus
Specs Pickups 2 HBS, Hardware Gold, Scale 24.75, Nut width 1.68, Neck Set, Neck Material Maple, FB/inlay Rw, black, Binding B, Body Material Mahogany, Top Flame Maple, Finished Hs I must add it is one of the best Flame Maple tops I have seen on a 700.00 guitar.

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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:11 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
Lp Custom Plus
Specs Pickups 2 HBS, Hardware Gold, Scale 24.75, Nut width 1.68, Neck Set, Neck Material Maple, FB/inlay Rw, black, Binding B, Body Material Mahogany, Top Flame Maple, Finished Hs I must add it is one of the best Flame Maple tops I have seen on a 700.00 guitar.


Your guitar has a maple top...it should be fine. (that isn't available in a left handed model....I really wish it was.)

As for the rest of us? There probably won't be a whole lot that can be done here. Even though it's agathis, it's also occasionally referred to as "commercial grade mahogany".

At least if Fender is using agathis on any component of their guitars, they will tell you. Apparently this isn't the case with Gibson, and specifically their daughter company Epiphone.

Just 2 cents here...solid body Epiphones I'd seriously avoid looking at (I'm not even going to get into the archtops...), or if you own one, be very, very careful when changing strings, or completing truss rod adjustments.

Les Paul 1956 Goldtop
Les Paul Black Beauty
Les Paul Standard
Les Paul Custom
Les Paul Studio
LP Studio Chameleon
Les Paul Ultra II
1958 Korina Explorer
1958 Korina Flying V
Firebird Studio
Prophecy (Futura Line)
Goth '58 Explorer
Goth G-400
Goth Les Paul Studio
Casino
All SG's with the exception of the SG Special.....

And if you own one (I own the LP custom),,,,,I wouldn't recommend doing the "boot trick", and be careful about said adjustments and damage to your instrument.

2 more cents...(walks away from thread)


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