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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:56 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

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"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:30 pm
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cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:33 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.


And I've never played the $150 SG's or Juniors.

_________________
"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:38 pm
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cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.


And I've never played the $150 SG's or Juniors.

They play very good, and have nicely finished necks, but the Pick Ups are a little weak. I wasn't to happy with the pick Ups on the standard Les Pauls either, but the Studio Les Paul, (which is cheaper) sounded fuller than the Standard.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:54 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.


And I've never played the $150 SG's or Juniors.

They play very good, and have nicely finished necks, but the Pick Ups are a little weak. I wasn't to happy with the pick Ups on the standard Les Pauls either, but the Studio Les Paul, (which is cheaper) sounded fuller than the Standard.


See, that's that thing I don't mind. I don't expect good pups for a guitar under $500. All I expect is decent tone, decent feeling neck with good fretwork. I fully expect to install new pups in any guitar that cheap. By the way, the Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90's are rockin in my Dot. It's like a a guitar in a totally different price range now.

_________________
"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:11 pm
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cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.


And I've never played the $150 SG's or Juniors.

They play very good, and have nicely finished necks, but the Pick Ups are a little weak. I wasn't to happy with the pick Ups on the standard Les Pauls either, but the Studio Les Paul, (which is cheaper) sounded fuller than the Standard.


See, that's that thing I don't mind. I don't expect good pups for a guitar under $500. All I expect is decent tone, decent feeling neck with good fretwork. I fully expect to install new pups in any guitar that cheap. By the way, the Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90's are rockin in my Dot. It's like a a guitar in a totally different price range now.
That's a good outlook. It makes me want to put P-90's in a Blue Quilt Top LP (mclmk8d's les paul with cryingstrat's pick ups) 8)

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:18 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
flamekaster wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
cryingstrat wrote:
wiiman8 wrote:
well really epiphone is to gibson as squire is to fender so its really up to you to decide


epi is to gibson as MIM or Highway one is to Fender.

+1


i dont have a problem with ei's but i dont know if that is a good comparison, i dont think the epi's are as good as usa made fender even the hiway ones

Entry Level Epi's are not as good as MIM Fender, but if you get an Ultra or Elitist, they're on Par. That's the thing with Epiphone, they make Cheap Guitars and Quality Guitars. A $150 Epi won't compare to any Fender, but a $500 Epi will.


I'd really have to disagree. My $200 Dot is every bit the equal of a MIM. Frankly, I'd put it's quality up against a Highway One. It's shockingly good for the money.

Yeah, I forgot about those Dots. I was thinking about the Les Paul Jr and SG's that you get for $150-$160. I'll have to lower my cap to $200.


And I've never played the $150 SG's or Juniors.

They play very good, and have nicely finished necks, but the Pick Ups are a little weak. I wasn't to happy with the pick Ups on the standard Les Pauls either, but the Studio Les Paul, (which is cheaper) sounded fuller than the Standard.


See, that's that thing I don't mind. I don't expect good pups for a guitar under $500. All I expect is decent tone, decent feeling neck with good fretwork. I fully expect to install new pups in any guitar that cheap. By the way, the Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90's are rockin in my Dot. It's like a a guitar in a totally different price range now.
That's a good outlook. It makes me want to put P-90's in a Blue Quilt Top LP (mclmk8d's les paul with cryingstrat's pick ups) 8)


A blue LP with 90's? Oh yeah! That would sound great.

_________________
"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:24 pm
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There's a couple of things to think about when considering an Epiphone.

1st: I wouldn't recommend buying one online. They're set up like crap from the Chinese factory. (action and intonation is typically way off...) If you are considering one, take a look at a reputable shop and just pony up the extra cash....believe me....it's worth it.

2nd: It's a cheap guitar....even this midpriced ones (I paid 650 USD for a left handed Epiphone LP custom) are going to have issues.

I've probably spent the past 6 weeks with that Epiphone.....a lot of time has been spent replacing the nut (I lost the plastic one and got a bone nut), I ended up installing Gibson Burstbucker Pro pickups with the Alcino V magnets (they're much brighter...the ones from the factory were very bass-y and there was a noticeable volume loss when pushing high end, aka leads on the higher frets.), and I replaced the stock saddles on the Epiphone bridge with All Parts saddles that came off a replacement bridge designed for a Gibson. I am hoping that the Grover eventually "break in", because when I really pull a string bend, I can put the guitar out of tune.

I'm also suspicious of the neck, because settting action and intonation at factory recommendations (4/64th of an inch on the high E, 6/64 on the low E) still procuces fret buzz all over the upper registers of the neck...even with the stop bar jacked all the way down.

If it's outright value we're talking about, all I can say is that at this point I'd probably feel better about 300 dollars spent on a Squier vs. 300 on an Epiphone. I've stated this before on the Squier forums, but I think the problem with Squier is that Epiphone isn't making better quality products...they're just marketed a lot better.

It's making a huge difference in terms of ouright sales. Walk into any guitar store chain outlet and you will see the walls flooded with Epiphones.

At the end of the day? Archtops aren't a bad deal (I've heard good things about the Dot), but as far as their Les Pauls go? You CANNOT turn an Epiphone LP into something that will sound like the real thing. I do not care what you do to that guitar. The wood isn't the same, (they are not using mahogany with the arch maple top), and even replacing every single piece of hardware will not...quite get someone that Gibson LP sound.

So there it is.

Hindsight 20/20, if I was looking for a LP "model" that wasn't Gibson, I should have checked ESP or Washburn first...I suspect the quality control is better.

But in light of how this is a Fender forum.....actually? Fender's making good stuff at a reasonable price. It's all in how it's packaged at this point. (NOTE: If Squier could get their own versions of Zakk Wylde and Slash to hawk Squiers, yes, you'd see a difference in perception and sales of this product.)


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:34 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
There's a couple of things to think about when considering an Epiphone.

1st: I wouldn't recommend buying one online. They're set up like crap from the Chinese factory. (action and intonation is typically way off...) If you are considering one, take a look at a reputable shop and just pony up the extra cash....believe me....it's worth it.

2nd: It's a cheap guitar....even this midpriced ones (I paid 650 USD for a left handed Epiphone LP custom) are going to have issues.

I've probably spent the past 6 weeks with that Epiphone.....a lot of time has been spent replacing the nut (I lost the plastic one and got a bone nut), I ended up installing Gibson Burstbucker Pro pickups with the Alcino V magnets (they're much brighter...the ones from the factory were very bass-y and there was a noticeable volume loss when pushing high end, aka leads on the higher frets.), and I replaced the stock saddles on the Epiphone bridge with All Parts saddles that came off a replacement bridge designed for a Gibson. I am hoping that the Grover eventually "break in", because when I really pull a string bend, I can put the guitar out of tune.

I'm also suspicious of the neck, because settting action and intonation at factory recommendations (4/64th of an inch on the high E, 6/64 on the low E) still procuces fret buzz all over the upper registers of the neck...even with the stop bar jacked all the way down.

If it's outright value we're talking about, all I can say is that at this point I'd probably feel better about 300 dollars spent on a Squier vs. 300 on an Epiphone. I've stated this before on the Squier forums, but I think the problem with Squier is that Epiphone isn't making better quality products...they're just marketed a lot better.

It's making a huge difference in terms of ouright sales. Walk into any guitar store chain outlet and you will see the walls flooded with Epiphones.

At the end of the day? Archtops aren't a bad deal (I've heard good things about the Dot), but as far as their Les Pauls go? You CANNOT turn an Epiphone LP into something that will sound like the real thing. I do not care what you do to that guitar. The wood isn't the same, (they are not using mahogany with the arch maple top), and even replacing every single piece of hardware will not...quite get someone that Gibson LP sound.

So there it is.

Hindsight 20/20, if I was looking for a LP "model" that wasn't Gibson, I should have checked ESP or Washburn first...I suspect the quality control is better.

But in light of how this is a Fender forum.....actually? Fender's making good stuff at a reasonable price. It's all in how it's packaged at this point. (NOTE: If Squier could get their own versions of Zakk Wylde and Slash to hawk Squiers, yes, you'd see a difference in perception and sales of this product.)


Another LP type brand you overlooked, which is a Fender brand now by the way, is Hamer. They make a pretty good guitar.

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"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:45 pm
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cryingstrat wrote:

Another LP type brand you overlooked, which is a Fender brand now by the way, is Hamer. They make a pretty good guitar.


Fender acquired Hamer? I did not know that! That's good to know! (in truth I still see their ads now and again, but I haven't seen one of their guitars in a store in a while....I hope Fender can get 'em back into form!)


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:11 pm
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The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.

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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:15 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.


Hmmm.....Actually, I did not have these included with my shipped Epiphone. I had a tag that "someone" verified the action and intonation...but checking it myself...it was off.

Way off. (and no, no one signed their name to it, either. I also got no tag implying that action and intonation was checked in the US prior to shipment.)

I don't think it helps that I'm a leftie, either.

I dunno. All I can say is unless you're playin' it before you buy it, let the buyer beware...especially with something like an Epiphone made in China.

Just my opinion....


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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:57 pm
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The_Sentry wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.


Hmmm.....Actually, I did not have these included with my shipped Epiphone. I had a tag that "someone" verified the action and intonation...but checking it myself...it was off.

Way off. (and no, no one signed their name to it, either. I also got no tag implying that action and intonation was checked in the US prior to shipment.)

I don't think it helps that I'm a leftie, either.

I dunno. All I can say is unless you're playin' it before you buy it, let the buyer beware...especially with something like an Epiphone made in China.

Just my opinion....

Actually, If you buy it from any sort of a reputable on line store, the buyer doesn't have to beware. they can return anything for any reason for up to 30 days of recieving the item purchased. It's called Buyers Remorse. There's even recourse against private parties that misrepresent what they sell on line.

And your advice on cheap guitars is good advice, but goes triple for expensive guitars. Expensive in no way guarantees quality, especialy where Gibson is concerned. I saw Fret Glue on a $2500 Les Paul in Guitar Center, and a "Less Than Flush" inlay in the headstock of another. And in the Acoustic room ther's a $1800 J45 with swirl marks in the finish, right above the sound hole.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:16 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.


Hmmm.....Actually, I did not have these included with my shipped Epiphone. I had a tag that "someone" verified the action and intonation...but checking it myself...it was off.

Way off. (and no, no one signed their name to it, either. I also got no tag implying that action and intonation was checked in the US prior to shipment.)

I don't think it helps that I'm a leftie, either.

I dunno. All I can say is unless you're playin' it before you buy it, let the buyer beware...especially with something like an Epiphone made in China.

Just my opinion....

Actually, If you buy it from any sort of a reputable on line store, the buyer doesn't have to beware. they can return anything for any reason for up to 30 days of recieving the item purchased. It's called Buyers Remorse. There's even recourse against private parties that misrepresent what they sell on line.

And your advice on cheap guitars is good advice, but goes triple for expensive guitars. Expensive in no way guarantees quality, especialy where Gibson is concerned. I saw Fret Glue on a $2500 Les Paul in Guitar Center, and a "Less Than Flush" inlay in the headstock of another. And in the Acoustic room ther's a $1800 J45 with swirl marks in the finish, right above the sound hole.


I once ordered a ES-137 and when I got it the finish around the neck joint was all cracked, to the point where chuncks were going to fall off. Sent it back. Didn't order another. I expect far more for a $1700 axe. Funny that the only guitars I've ever had to send back were Gibson's.

_________________
"is that a real poncho...i mean
Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:19 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
The Custom thet I gave to my son and also my Custom Plus which
were both made in Korea were set up in the U.S. before going
out for sale . They each had e a card with employee number and
initials stating set up in U.S. as well as a label under the serial number
saying U.S.. Now On his his Studio model and my special they just have
the label on the guitar and small hang tag with initials on them. The
Studio model is from China and the special Indonesia that said U.S
set-up and approved. Because of that I would think none are shipped
to dealers right from china without this being done.


Hmmm.....Actually, I did not have these included with my shipped Epiphone. I had a tag that "someone" verified the action and intonation...but checking it myself...it was off.

Way off. (and no, no one signed their name to it, either. I also got no tag implying that action and intonation was checked in the US prior to shipment.)

I don't think it helps that I'm a leftie, either.

I dunno. All I can say is unless you're playin' it before you buy it, let the buyer beware...especially with something like an Epiphone made in China.

Just my opinion....

Actually, If you buy it from any sort of a reputable on line store, the buyer doesn't have to beware. they can return anything for any reason for up to 30 days of recieving the item purchased. It's called Buyers Remorse. There's even recourse against private parties that misrepresent what they sell on line.

And your advice on cheap guitars is good advice, but goes triple for expensive guitars. Expensive in no way guarantees quality, especialy where Gibson is concerned. I saw Fret Glue on a $2500 Les Paul in Guitar Center, and a "Less Than Flush" inlay in the headstock of another. And in the Acoustic room ther's a $1800 J45 with swirl marks in the finish, right above the sound hole.


hA.....

Oddly enough....I bought mine from Musician's Friend. And, I had to wait an additional 45 days because even though they were advertising the heck out of it, they were 'out of stock' once it was ordered.

In any case....I probably should have just went to another retail chain. I didn't because I didn't want to wait 6 months to a year for a replacement.

(and, because it's doubtful that leftie models get the same amount of attention, the chances were pretty high I would have sent back the guitar again and again. It just got to the point where I just took the lemon, and forced as much lemonade out of it as possible.)


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