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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:06 pm
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Syeklops wrote:
I just had a friend of mine buy an Epiphone Studio Dot a month ago. When he got it, it said, "made in China". Also......every time he plays it, the fret board turns his fingers black......although.....the black fingers thingie, seems to be slowing down. (mmmmm.....I wonder....with all the lead stuff coming out of China.......could his fingers be turning black from that?)


When I've seen black fingers after playing it's from old filthy strings. Change them and I'm sure the black finger thing goes away. The fretboard is rosewood, no lead involved. The frets aren't lead.

I've got an Epi Dot Studio and it's a fantastic guitar for the money. I've been playing for 38 years and have an idea of what a decent guitar is....that is a decent guitar. The fret work was perfect. The action was great. The tuners and bridge could be better but it's a $200 guitar for crying out loud. Intonation was the only thing I had to do to it. Oh, and swap out the humbuckers for P90's. It's a great rockin guitar and I'd recommend one to anyone looking for an inexpensive 335 style guitar. I'd put it as the same level of quality as a MIM strat.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:10 pm
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Syeklops wrote:
every time he plays it, the fret board turns his fingers black ... although ... the black fingers thingie, seems to be slowing down. (mmmmm ... I wonder ... with all the lead stuff coming out of China ... could his fingers be turning black from that?)


That could be dye from the fingerboard. Though you mostly see the black on dyed ebony fingerboards ... to darken lighter streaks in the ebony or to make some other wood appear to be ebony.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:22 pm
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Epiphones are definitely high-quality guitars.

Some are cheap, just like the cheap Squiers, but the higher-end guitars are at least as good as Mexican Fenders.

The G-400 is one of Epiphone's best.

The Qing Dao factory opened in 2005, and is owned and operated by Gibson. They started off rough, but the guitars that come out of there now are just as good as the Korean guitars. Almost all Epiphones are made in China now.

I play a 2001 Epiphone Casino, by Peerless in Korea.

If it's any testament, Epiphone's Masterbilt line of acoustics are played by quite a few professionals, and they're made in the same factory as the electrics.

There's also the Elitist line, made in Japan, with Gibson USA parts, but they've discontinued the Elitist SG.

A handful of Epiphones are still made in USA, but very few... the John Lennon Casinos, the McCartney Texan, and a few years ago there was a US-made Sheraton.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:44 pm
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Change the strings. 8)

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:46 pm
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cryingstrat wrote:
Syeklops wrote:
I just had a friend of mine buy an Epiphone Studio Dot a month ago. When he got it, it said, "made in China". Also......every time he plays it, the fret board turns his fingers black......although.....the black fingers thingie, seems to be slowing down. (mmmmm.....I wonder....with all the lead stuff coming out of China.......could his fingers be turning black from that?)


When I've seen black fingers after playing it's from old filthy strings. Change them and I'm sure the black finger thing goes away. The fretboard is rosewood, no lead involved. The frets aren't lead.

I've got an Epi Dot Studio and it's a fantastic guitar for the money. I've been playing for 38 years and have an idea of what a decent guitar is....that is a decent guitar. The fret work was perfect. The action was great. The tuners and bridge could be better but it's a $200 guitar for crying out loud. Intonation was the only thing I had to do to it. Oh, and swap out the humbuckers for P90's. It's a great rockin guitar and I'd recommend one to anyone looking for an inexpensive 335 style guitar. I'd put it as the same level of quality as a MIM strat.


I'll pass on that information to my friend. He says he loves the action on it, just complains about his hands always turning black........although, that is showing down now. I also suggested he put new strings on, to see if that would make a difference, but he was stubborn. He tried putting "guitar honey" on the fretboard, but he still gets black fingers. I've played with him and it has a nice tone, and like I said......he likes the action.

My friend also has an ES-333 and he claims (I've never played either guitar), that the ES-333 is harder to play (frets too high) than the Dot Studio.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:59 pm
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Scanman13 wrote:
He's probably talking about the Epi factory-remember they are owned by Gibson- just like the Squier factory in China- they have Fender people there.


Gotcha. Cuz they had the Gibson feature on Made in America with John Ratzenberger, and they proudly say all Gibson guitars were made there.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:44 pm
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All "Gibson" guitar are made in USA - electrics are split between Nashville and Memphis, while some acoustics are made in Montana.

"Orville" guitars were made in Japan, and evolved into the "Epiphone Elitist" line.

Epiphone guitars left the US around 1970 (not entirely, but mostly), and went to Japan, then to Korea, then to China.

But if the headstock says Gibson (and nothing but Gibson), it was made in the US.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:01 pm
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Epiphone made in Korea are (from my experience's with Epi's and Gibby's) are made a little better than US Gibsons. As in Flawless Finishes and no Fret Glue Smudges, no loose hardware. However, US Gibsons are made with Better cuts of wood, and more traditional sounding Gibson Pickups. Epihpone Pickups are good pickups, but they have their own voice. Darker and less bighting than the say The BurstBuckers. If you get a higher end Epiphone, with Gibson electronics, you'll have a guitar that's on par with the $2000-$3000 Gibsons, for less than $1000.

Indonesian, IndoChinese, and Chinese Epis are pretty good, but not in the same league as the Korean ones. I'd be willing to say that America could learn a lot about Woodworking and Finishing from Korea.

edit- I should have mentioned that Japanese Epis are nearly as nice as the Korean ones, and just as nice as American Gibsons.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:19 pm
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FirstMeasure wrote:
US Gibsons are made with Better cuts of wood, and more traditional sounding Gibson Pickups.


I was waiting for someone to mention this. The Chinese/Mexican/Indonesian factories probably all have similar machines which cut out bodies and necks ... and they can all sand and paint quite well. Epiphone seems to use better woods than the Squiers. And US Fenders and Gibsons have even better woods.

pohatu771 wrote:
"Orville" guitars were made in Japan, and evolved into the "Epiphone Elitist" line.


The "Orville by Gibson" series (1989-1998) had its various price points. IMO, the cheapest ones were better than any non-MIJ Epiphone, and the highest quality ones rivaled Gibson's reissue lines. It took quite a long time for Americans to learn about and appreciate the Orville by Gibson guitars.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:07 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
FirstMeasure wrote:
US Gibsons are made with Better cuts of wood, and more traditional sounding Gibson Pickups.


I was waiting for someone to mention this. The Chinese/Mexican/Indonesian factories probably all have similar machines which cut out bodies and necks ... and they can all sand and paint quite well. Epiphone seems to use better woods than the Squiers. And US Fenders and Gibsons have even better woods.

pohatu771 wrote:
"Orville" guitars were made in Japan, and evolved into the "Epiphone Elitist" line.


The "Orville by Gibson" series (1989-1998) had its various price points. IMO, the cheapest ones were better than any non-MIJ Epiphone, and the highest quality ones rivaled Gibson's reissue lines. It took quite a long time for Americans to learn about and appreciate the Orville by Gibson guitars.

Yeah, I'll say. That was my most active time, musicaly, and I only just now heard of them :oops:

I should point out that my opinion of Korean woodwork doesn't come from what I've seen in Epiphones. A friend of mine was in the Army, and stationed in Korea. He brought back some a jewelery box and a picture frame for his wife, made by local "craftsmen". It was so flawless and the varnishes so clear, joints were almost invisible. I never stared a picture frame for so long in my life. The inlay work on the jewelry box were stunning, and flawless. I did a little reaserch and found that Korea takes a national pride in thie woodworking abilities, and that the work of thier Crafstmen, pale compared to their Artists.

I can see that reflected in the craftmanship of Korean made Epis, particularly from the Peerless and Un Sung factories. That's doesnt mean everyone else "can't do it".

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:23 pm
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i have a collection of many companies... i am a real sucker for an amazing guitar.... i have 2 epiphones and gibson (mentioning the epiphone and gibson thing here) i would say epiphone is more like mexican fender. honestly..

my gibson is REDICULOUSLY perfect, but at 2500(current lefty les paul), i am afraid to take it places at etc..... i have a g400 and a sheration...the g400 could really use a fret dressing, and maybe some GFS pick ups, but its reallly not far off from my friends gibson SG.. truthfully, epiphone finish is really annoying as it is thick poly compared to nitro. but yeah...

my sheriton is honestly almost as good of a player as my gibson.

HOWEVER..my gibson has had two seperate fret dressings and so on... people complain about gibson ALOT lately, but the wood is all properly dried (as apposed to speed dried like other companies) but a gibson in WAY WAY WAY more... i will have a gibson sg at some point, and an epiphone LES PAUL....

its all in what you wanna pay... i can have 2 epiphones and 2 fenders for the cost of ONE gibson and be A DAMN LOT HAPPIER.



even an epi custom/elite and a fender plus for the price of one gibson and be a lot happier...

the way i look at it, the g400 should be 400... not 300...

thats my best answer... i love mine, but hey, im a guitar nut... anyone with questions, please email me.. evol04gt@yahoo.com



gibson is a lot better wood and materials... they will last you a lifetime and retain their value. but you will worry night and day about them.. if you make over 100k buy gibsons..... if not, get what you like.

epiphones are a lower grade wood, but TRUTHFULLY the tone of the guitar is mostly in the pick ups, TYPE of wood and the set up/dressing.

feel and smooth playability are key...

you will always have to tweak a guitar and if you wanna swap pick ups or alter things, but an epi and not worry so much. it wont ever retain its value in 5 years, but hell, you can get a lot more of them.

jsut inspect everyguitar.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:24 pm
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I have a Peerless Casino that is much nicer than my friend's Gibson SG.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:30 pm
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gibson are expensive because they can be.... remember when PRS were starting at 2000 bucks???????????? i do... epiphone gettting better and better sort of encourages gibson to raise their prices more and more.


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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:57 pm
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If you look at my post called "my gals" in the strat lounge you'll see my 3 epis. They are as well made as gibsons according to Gibson. I called and asked what the diferences were. besides what i allready said they added that they were shot with polyerathane; (tougher that laquer), had slightly dierent pickups and controls but otherwise were well made and good sounding.
Now I had a genuine Les Paul; had it for years; I like my epis better. They aren't all beat up like the LP was (The only way I could afford one),
they play easier, and I can choose the finish because I can AFFORD an Epi.
I will attest to their sound construction and quality; I have had NO problems with any save the Firebird. The Firebird's pick up selector switch broke when I closed the guitar's case the first time I used it; more a situation of poor case design than the guitar's quality.
I have "CHEAPER" Epis. All under $500.00 each.
IMHO someone out there is badmouthing a fine manufacturer of guitars without any first hand knowledge. I have played epis since the early '70s when i was a young lad and I have never heard of or observed a bad trend or bad guitar in Epiphones. There is nothing wrong in having an Epi any more than owning what used to be callled a "rice burner"

BTW I bought all my Epis from Musicians Friend sight unseen touch un-made.
They all were perfect outta the box; I haven't touched a screw on any of them save string changes and lube jobs on the pots/switches.
All MFRs are entitled to a recall or a lemon from time to time; new people, new machines at the facvtory; Crainial Flatulence; IT HAPPENS; all that happens to all of us. Fender and Gibson have had their lemons as well I'm sure; they probably got caught before they left is all. Epis come with a great warranty and I'm sure Gibson will make those lemons right.


Last edited by dna9656 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:58 pm
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They're made from different materials in comparison to Gibson's line of beauties, but otherwise they're not bad guitars. Though if you're getting an SG you'd be better off getting one with some sort of custom neck, the ones on Ep SG's are very very fat.

Or perhaps one of their "Prophecy" models which either have Floyd Roses or EMG pups. Take your pick.

EDIT: The prophecy SG does not have a Floyd Rose, but the GX model has DIRTY FINGERS pickups and the EX has EMG pickups. And they're different colors.


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