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Post subject: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:45 pm
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I have been reading the Vintage Guitar Price Guide for many years now and I find it to be probably closest to "reality" for values of instruments that I see in stores and online. And, like people who set prices from EBay "buy it now" prices, it's usually a bit high on some items. But......come on!!!! When you see That later reissue Paisley Telecasters are supposed to be in the $450.00 - $600.00 range.........REALLY?????? WHERE?? I can't find them going for(GOING FOR!!) $1,000.00 or so!! "Splattercasters" going for less than about $700.00 when the "Book" says $400.00 or so????? I mean, what gives here? Please tell me where the dealers are who are selling these instruments at these "listed" values! I know that the guide has a disclaimer saying that the prices listed should not be used as exact values as nothing can do that except supply and demand. But, if you are using this book to give you a "ballpark" idea, then something isn't quite up to date!


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:58 pm
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I find a more accurate gauge for prices of vintage gear to be the "completed listings" shown on Ebay. They're real-world values and they reflect real-time trends.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:25 pm
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I totally agree! Unfortunately, it is more convenient when I am out and about, to stick a copy of the book in the car with me. As I said, I am just curious as to where the "expert" panel(and I know they are long time guitar dealers of some renown and they know their stuff!) gets its' information from? It can't be from the "sold" listings from Ebay!? One note that does ring true from this year's guide is that most prices have gone up......just like it says on the back page!!


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:59 am
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In a lot of cases if the retail price goes up so does the used price. That just the way it is. A seller can "ask" for a certain price but that does not mean that is what it is worth. Then there is location different prices in different areas of the States and the same goes for the rest of the world.

A book takes about a year to revise and then print, so the information you have is already outdated when you get it. JMO


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:36 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
I find a more accurate gauge for prices of vintage gear to be the "completed listings" shown on Ebay. They're real-world values and they reflect real-time trends.

Arjay



+1

I look at "sold" listings as well.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:00 am
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Asking prices and BIN prices are all over the map on eBay which is why I agree that you have to look at completed auctions. eBay used to be a bargain hunter's paradise, but not anymore.


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:40 pm
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I haven't bought the 2014 issue of the Price Guide yet but I have the 2010-2013 inclusively.Since I have an almost obsessive interest in vintage gear,I have found the Vintage Guitar Price Guide to be a great source of info on well known and very obscure musical gear.Although some prices seem to be out of whack with the "real world" the vintage gear market fluctuates like any other market and since it's compiled by such well known dealer/collectors as George Gruhn and Norman of Norman's Rare Guitars and other prominent names in the guitar world,the prices are by and large probably the most accurate reflection of the vintage market that we can avail of.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Guitar Price Guide Values
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:59 pm
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The point about the VGPG being outdated by the time you get it has already been brought up. To me the VGPG figures by and large are always either very low or very high in relation to the real world.

It is a similar situation to the Kelly Blue Book for cars. No dealer sells or buys solely by the KBB either. If they did then they would not need salesmen.

I think part of the reason for VGPG to exist is so used dealers can show sellers ignorant of market conditions the "value" of a guitar that an owner is trying to sell or trade with the dealer. For most of the more common and more recent instruments this price is often lower than the real world. Especially post-CBS Fender and early Fender Japan values are FAR LOWER than the real world. "Hey, if it is in print it must be true!" So more recent stuff, like the Splattercasters and Paisley Fenders mentioned, are somewhat low-balled in VGPG because there are way more of them than the Pre-CBS instruments, which are the dealers' bread and butter. This could also happen because the people who compile the pricing actually have very little experience selling more recent issues compared to true vintage instruments which they seem to value more accurately.

Let's face it, the vintage dealers who compile VGPG aren't making a decent living buying and selling $600 Strats. They'd rather sell one $4000 Strat than seven $600 Strats. Many of the people submitting data probably don't deal in many sub $1000 instruments at all.

Buyer...and seller BEWARE. In the real world of auction houses, regional vintage shows, established vintage dealers, etc....you just can't go by anything in print anywhere as an actual fact. You can't even go by an appraisal figures from top appraisers as a selling price because appraisal values are always higher than the actual price an instrument will bring in a private party sale.

Also you could be comparing apples to oranges and not even realize it. Maybe you've got a gem or a clunker in front of you and you have to take that into account as well.

eBay gives you a good idea only if you are buying and selling on eBay. eBay final auction values are irrelevant if you trying to do a private party sale or purchase in a depressed market where half the people are unemployed or stuck in some small burg with a limited market. In either of those cases you are going to have a great deal of difficulty selling an instrument at anywhere near the eBay price...unless you sell it on eBay. eBay final bids in ended auctions are a good guide to MAXIMUM domestic value in general though and a good way to get an idea of what you've got, so long as you compare apples to apples.

eBay selling to get the eBay price is a hassle. Selling or buying on eBay also is fraught with hazards. I've gotten way less than I should have selling there on more than one occasion. I also had several high bidders back out after the auction ended and they never paid. That would be painful with auction fees based on the final bid charged to me so I have to deal with eBay and go through the non-paying bidder process and re-list it. When the final bidder backs out I re-list the item as I don't go to the next highest bidder for a "Second Chance Offer" at their highest bid for safety reasons that protect bidders from shill bidding. There are eBay horror stories galore from both buyers and sellers. One instrument I bought had a maxed out truss rod but the seller didn't disclose it, yet they probably knew about it. They were a major dealer and they said that they had done a set up on it in their shop, so they had to know!

I'd consider VGPG and eBay final bids to be a lot like "The Pirate Code." All three are more like general guidelines than rules.

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