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Post subject: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:45 pm
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Read this first. Science is no fun. Next they're going to tell me there's no Santa Clause.

http://www.aqdi.com/tonecap.htm

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:51 pm
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A microfarad is a microfarad, it doesn't mater if it's composed of paper in oil, polypropylene, mica or baking foil and toilet paper. People desperately want to believe they can buy better tone and confirmation bias will keep a lot of people believing the hype.

It's easier for people to spend money than for them to actually learn to play properly.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:13 pm
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Wasn't there a tread about this not too long ago?

Typically, I don't use caps anymore, HOWEVER, I did come to some recent discoveries of my own.

I was picking out a guitar to give to my niece for Christmas. I had it narrowed down to a few to choose from. In doing so I figured I'd wire up some caps and make the tone knobs usable for her.

Two of my Schecters always sounded different from one another. What I discovered was that one of them actually had the cap missing. The other had a red cap in it. I took out the red one and wired up an orange drop, and they now sound the same. So at the very least, the orange drops don't appear to hinder the pickup tone. The red one absolutely did.

I also have 2 identical Squier starts. They were also different sounding from each other. One had a green cap, the other a red one. I said to myself, I'll bet money if I switch the green one with an orange drop, it will sound like the guitar with the red one ".. And it did. As confusing as that is, the fact remains that the orange and that particular red sound the same now.

So while I don't have any real answers to that, I would still conclude that some caps will make your guitar sound worse than it could. It's a cloudy murkiness to the sound that I'm talking about. And I know when I hear it. There are inconsistencies somewhere that can't be denied.

As far as Orange Drop VS. PIO VS. Red VS. Green VS. whatever else, I could care less as long as the pickup sounds the same with or without it. Orange drops have been very consistent in that area for me. So if I decide to use a cap, that's what I put in. I trust them not to cloud the sound at 10.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:32 pm
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What the writer of the article found, was if you change caps with the same value, there will be no tone difference. If you change caps with different value caps, you will get some variation in tone. So, if you buy PIO .022 or Mylar .022's, you're getting the same tone. They didn't do a color comparison. :D

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:42 am
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I call bull---- on that one. I run my own experiments using my own ears on my own guitars. The one thing I noticed about the sound samples is:

#1: Someone has crappy taste in distortion.
#2: The use of distortion instead of a clean channel.

Who WOULD hear a difference in that murky mess they used for their samples? Do those samples in a clean channel, and then get back to us.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:08 am
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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:37 am
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I think the plotted graph's were the proof. The sound clips were just there as a point of reference because some people like to listen. Caps are so cheap, I would never buy the cheapest of them. But spending big bucks for NOS PIO is a waste of money, IMO.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:03 am
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I don't even know what they do but they have to look the part. I would only buy a cap that looked cool. Paper in oil.


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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:09 am
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DarkPenguin wrote:
I don't even know what they do but they have to look the part. I would only buy a cap that looked cool. Paper in oil.


Well then Gibson has a cap for you. They were wrapping a cheap cap in an outer cover that looked like the old bumble bees and claiming these new caps gave the same sweet tone as their old Bumble Bees. I guess according to the article, they were telling the truth. But it seems pretty slimy to me.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:55 am
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I'm going to try to say this with the intent of a respectful manner. I can't go by a graph. Because I can't hear a graph chart. If someone is gonna come to me trying to prove something in the realm of sound, I have to hear it.

What if I were to say "Coke and Pepsi taste the same. Look at my chart and it proves it." Would you accept looking at a chart? I'd want to taste it for myself.

Now let's say I decide to give you samples. But in doing so I pour them in glasses that are 80% filled with whiskey. Would you taste the difference between the Coke and the Pepsi?

That's what I don't like about that article. I don't trust the graph chart, and I'd like to hear them in a clean setting.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:02 pm
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Never buy cheap parts, but never buy overpriced parts.

That's what it comes down to.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:46 pm
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Buxom wrote:
Never buy cheap parts, but never buy overpriced parts.

That's what it comes down to.


What it comes down to is that in the case of capacitors there is no difference between a cheap part and an overpriced and overhyped part. But good look to anyone who enjoys falling for the lies, I'm sure someone somewhere will be very happy to take your money.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:50 pm
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I gave my general guidelines for buying parts for guitars in general. I learned from experience, a few very good and very bad buys. (I've done a few builds and some wiring)

Example, Look on ebay for vintage Fender pickguards. #$@*&!% insane prices, amirite?

Who in their right mind would pay $200 for a sheet of plastic with holes cut in it?

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:00 pm
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GilgaFrank wrote:
What it comes down to is that in the case of capacitors there is no difference between a cheap part and an overpriced and overhyped part. But good look to anyone who enjoys falling for the lies, I'm sure someone somewhere will be very happy to take your money.


If that's the case ( and once again, I ask respectfully) then it would be the case for all electronics wouldn't it? Why buy a Fender amp then? Or any high end amp or pedal. If all parts create the same frequencies no matter the substance it's made of, for example Caps and resistors, then why doesn't a Crate sound like a Fender?

Let's say you had 2 identical tube amps. One has the cheapest caps made , and the other had some of the highest quality Caps. Is it your belief that they would sound identical?

What about wah pedals? I can already tell you that I've swapped caps in them and had the sound change. Why would that be?

I'm sorry man, but I just find it hard to believe. Even if I hadn't heard the differences myself, it stands to reason that different materials and differences in quality equate to different sounds. If we are to take all of the theories about guitar sound and why they are what they are, and dispel them all as myth, then every single coil guitar would sound the same, and every humbucker guitar would sound the same. They would just have different strengths.

Why would a magnet swap in a pickup make the pickup sound any different? A magnetic pull is a magnetic pull regardless of what material the magnet is made of right? And yet we know by our ears that it does make a difference.

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Post subject: Re: Thinking of buying expensive PIO caps?
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:25 pm
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hell yea. you pwn'd frank.

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