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Post subject: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:54 pm
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As I was trying out my new Mesa amp and dialing in sounds, I noticed a strange relationship between the Treble-Mid-Bass controls.

When I was reading up on the amp, it's said that it's based on older vintage circuitry. Apparently that means, throw out any logic behind those controls. The reason I say that is, when you turn a knob, it also affects the others. It's the same with my Alembic F-1X (based on vintage circuitry).

So as you're tweaking one aspect of the eq, the others tweak into another zone at the same time. You're basically dealing with a sonic histogram. There's no such thing as just adding or subtracting Treble, Mid, or Bass individually. You end up with a three knob free for all until you find a sweet spot. Sometimes it can be fun to mess with. But in those times when you want to make a quick eq adjustment, say like in a live situation, it seems like it could have been a real pain in the $@!.

I guess my question is, was this a common thing with vintage amps? As a kind of tone tweaker's nightmare, why would someone want to recreate the madness? Does it really mess with the integrity of the sound to make the eq straight forward and logical?

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:04 pm
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I've only ever experienced something like that on this Crate combo I had.

Notice the word "had" :P (dumped the piece of $@!& and eventually traded for an amp I love)

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:12 pm
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I actually really like these amps. They both have great sounds. Especially the Alembic (Bass preamp). The sounds it produces are so good, I call it the Bass amp God built on the 9th day. Of course, finding the sweet spots can feel like trying to find the meaning of life sometimes.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:38 pm
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Sometimes life just has no meaning :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:44 am
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My Rivera Fandango is the same way. I can see how it might be frustrating at first but once you get used to it I'm almost sure you'll like the way it sounds. In my opinion the key learning how to acclimate yourself to it is to keep your changes small enough at first that they don't conspicuously spill over into the next range. That will help you get a feel for how they interact with each other. At one time I had a better technical understanding of the relationships but I've forgotten most of it. I believe the intent is to smoothen out the EQ curve. Finding the sweet spot volume wise also helps a great deal. A great deal. Try pushing the power section a bit harder and backing off on the preamp gain. There will be a slight cleanup of the overall tone going that route but the amp will be more dynamic and responsive to your touch. The tone controls on your guitar will also seem more useful when the amp is dialled that way.

Two cents.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:23 am
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The current issue of Guitar Player Magazine features Carlos Santana, Randall Smith and the new Mesa Boogie King Snake which I have on order. 8) His description of the circuitry in that model might give you insight into your question. :?

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:13 am
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BMW-KTM, that is some interesting insight. To be clear, I love the sounds of the Mesa. I just find the controls a bit odd. The first thought that ran through my head when I was dealing with the Alembic (purchased before the Mesa) was,"Did someone build these controls by a conscious decision, or was it a mistake in the beginning (the vintage years) that made for an interesting eq system"? Did it become an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of thing. In other words, did an amp maker possibly wire something wrong but still loved the sound and decide to put it out anyway? I'm fascinated now by the origin of this kind of eq design and weather it was in fact done consciously or not. 'Cause it is screwy to tweak with.

Doc, I envy you man. I'll have to try to make it one of my wish list items to someday have an amp like this in a 6l6 design. I'll bet that King Snake has a big thick power distortion sound.
I watched the video of Carlos and Randall talking about it, and I'd have to say Carlos' description is no better than the eq's nuttiness. But I'm suspecting that it's much in the same way this kind of circuitry was conceived. "The amp makes pretty notes".

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:28 am
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Jah Soldier wrote:
Doc, I envy you man. I'll have to try to make it one of my wish list items to someday have an amp like this in a 6l6 design. I'll bet that King Snake has a big thick power distortion sound.
I watched the video of Carlos and Randall talking about it, and I'd have to say Carlos' description is no better than the eq's nuttiness. But I'm suspecting that it's much in the same way this kind of circuitry was conceived. "The amp makes pretty notes".

I've had a Jones for that amp for years but considered it a lost cause, out of production kind of thing. This amp is an upgraded and tweaked version of the original Boogie. I pulled the trigger on it fast. One of Guitar Player Mag's editors advised me that half the production number was already spoken for 24 hours following release. I don't know how these things happen. I got in on the same day [Tuesday] and my dealer's present allotment was already spoken for. I have to wait until February for their next order. My sense, from an early perusal of the article, is that you'll glean more of what you're looking for there, as opposed to the video, because Randall goes into philosophy and design behind the circuitry, some of which is new. What is of advantage for me, over the old amp, is that one can switch from 10, 60, 100 watts without loss of tone. This gives me practice amp function which can be enjoyed and not at the expense of others around me because I have no doubt that 'it might be loud.' :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:58 am
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I remember having played through a rented Mesa Road
King 2x12 combo many years ago and the controls were
very tweakable, in fact a bit too much for my likes, but
a very decent sounding amp.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:12 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
The current issue of Guitar Player Magazine features Carlos Santana, Randall Smith and the new Mesa Boogie King Snake which I have on order. 8) His description of the circuitry in that model might give you insight into your question. :?

Doc, that King Snake looks interesting. I was planning on getting an Egnator Tourmaster. The King Snake has most of the features I'm looking for and the Tourmaster has. What is the King Snake going for? A Tourmaster head is $1,499. It doesn't come in a 1x12 only a 2x12 combo which my back is telling me is a no go.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:44 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
The current issue of Guitar Player Magazine features Carlos Santana, Randall Smith and the new Mesa Boogie King Snake which I have on order. 8) His description of the circuitry in that model might give you insight into your question. :?

Doc, that King Snake looks interesting. I was planning on getting an Egnator Tourmaster. The King Snake has most of the features I'm looking for and the Tourmaster has. What is the King Snake going for? A Tourmaster head is $1,499. It doesn't come in a 1x12 only a 2x12 combo which my back is telling me is a no go.

It's $2495 out the door. Mesa does not discount. They sell to a discrete network of dealers whom you can find on Mesa's website. They sell online through Sweetwater.com and one other whose name I've forgotten. This is a limited run of 400, and going fast. If you want to charge it or arrange some kind of payout, I'd contact Sweetwater the minute you read this and see what they can work out for you. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:54 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
The current issue of Guitar Player Magazine features Carlos Santana, Randall Smith and the new Mesa Boogie King Snake which I have on order. 8) His description of the circuitry in that model might give you insight into your question. :?


Which month are you referring to? I have Decembers and I don't see an article about this amp. FYI, I am ordering a guitar on Monday from Carvin. There is a Mesa Boogie store next door. I plan to go in and see if they have one of the King Snake's. Do you want me to ask any questions while I'm there? Like when will you get yours? :lol:
I see they are offered at Sweetwater, but since I'm ordering this guitar I need to be really motivated to risk the ire of the missus by buying a high end amp at the same time. But, I haven't ruled it out. It wouldn't be the first time I slept with the dogs.
Sorry to hijack your thread Jah!

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:18 pm
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Drew365 wrote:
Which month are you referring to?

January...Santana and Randall Smith on the cover with the amp. Mine is scheduled for delivery end of February. Hope the vendor youi're visiting tomorrow does not tell you that they are all spoken for.

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:25 pm
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Jah Soldier wrote:
As I was trying out my new Mesa amp...was this a common thing with vintage amps?...


I believe that it is covered in the Mesa manual about the interactive tone controls. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Anyone have the scoop on this?
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:46 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Drew365 wrote:
Which month are you referring to?

January...Santana and Randall Smith on the cover with the amp. Mine is scheduled for delivery end of February. Hope the vendor youi're visiting tomorrow does not tell you that they are all spoken for.

I'll be at the factory outlet store. They only sell Mesa Boogie. Jah Soldier, what model amp did you buy? Here is a link to all of the Mesa Boogie manuals:

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/user_ ... l#p7GPc1_2

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