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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:13 am
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I don't own any what I would call vintage guitars. I do own a 72 Strat. I think the whole vintage thing is all blown out of proportion. The guitars today are more consistent, and I think it's good and bad. Way back, like Arjay said, you had good and bad too. What made the real gems were the "screw up's" Like pickups being accidentally over or under wound, tolerances being off in the electronics like caps and pots. Today, it's hard to tell one Strat or Tele from another. You can pick a red one that may sound the same as a blue one as long as the other materials are the same.

I do have a couple of old guitars. My 63 Supro Martinique turned 50 this year. I have a 1955 Martin 5-18 that's supposed to be tuned to Terz tuning meaning 1/3 higher than standard tuning. It's a really small body guitar. Marty Robbins played one way back. I also have a 1957 Danelectro U1. I like all my guitars. As far as a 50's or 60's era Strat or Les Paul commanding $25,000 on up, I think it's total nonsense. I think they had just as many dogs back then as they did in the 70's.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:26 am
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I was talking equipment a few weeks ago with a musician who was famous in the early 60's (name's irrelevant) ... he told me he still has his original 1962 Fender Stratocaster .

I was very surprised when he said he would sell it off in a heartbeat at current market value. This is a guitar that was on famous recordings, I couldn't believe he'd give it up so fast. He said you only live once. :?

I guess to him, it's just another guitar, and the Eric Clapton model strat he was using is probably superior in every way, except mojo and age.

I'm not sure if I would have made an offer on that guitar, even if I had the available cash. What would I do with it? Probably build or buy a display case and stick it inside, out of direct sunlight. That's not much fun.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:41 am
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The way I look at it, if I was afraid to play it, I wouldn't want it. I was trying to keep my 72 Strat stock. But first the volume pot went, then my trem unit started giving me problems this year. I replaced them both. I put a Super Vee Blade Runner trem in my Strat and put the parts in a plastic bag and saved them. I want a player period. That Super Vee made that guitar sound a thousand times better. It rarely goes out of tune now too. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:43 am
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GilgaFrank wrote:
No.
You must have a masters degree in economics. :lol:
Absolutely TAGGED it with one little two letter word.


Lotsa folks are quite rightly identifying the fact there were just as many dogs as stars back in the day. They are also quite rightly identifying the comparative lack of consistency in manufacturing processes as being the reason. I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far.

I think what most people either forget or else fail to take into account is that the vintage guitars commanding the highest eBay prices are the ones that are the dogs. Think about it. You see a beautiful '57 Strat in almost totally pristine condition and they're asking $65K. You gotta ask yourself one question. What makes this guitar so pristine? Is it the fact the previous owner(s) took such sweet gentle tender care of it that it never got any more damage than a few polishing swirls and some age induced check marks? Oh come on. In the 60's and 70's? Drugs, booze and wild parties and the guitar never got harmed? Puh-leeeeze… Like they say at hockey games….. Give yer head a shake, Ref. Yer eyes are stuck.

I'd say a far more likely reason it's near mint is because it had no mojo whatsoever and consequently nobody ever played it. The good ones were played half to death. Many were burned or beaten in an ill advised and prolly drug induced attempt to copy Pete Townsend or Jimi. The dogs didn't get played. They wound up in a closet where they stayed for 50+ years until somebody died and the family went through the deceased's belongings.

So are they worth it? Absolutely and unequivocally not.
That's my take on whole "vintage" thing.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 am
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63supro wrote:
The way I look at it, if I was afraid to play it, I wouldn't want it. :wink:

Agree with that supro. Guitars are to make music not looked at!

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:34 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Guitars are to make music not looked at!

They can be both. And how a guitar looks influences how I play too.
But the moment the looks prevents it from being played, it's time to put it in a glass case or sell it, and get a different guitar.

Sure, it sucks that my gorgeous Select with a nitro lacquer finish gets wear, no matter how well I polish it and treat it. But it's not going to stop me from playing it. Guitars (and women) get worn with use, but that doesn't mean they belong in glass cases. Take as good care of them as you can, and enjoy.


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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:34 pm
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Strings- Yeah, I had a 63 and sold it. My '04 is so much friendlier. And prettier.
I'll never part with it. It's the only guitar I conceal when I'm at work. The other guitars are just decoys, in case I get robbed.


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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:53 pm
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I've read up a bit on guitar wood(s) and wooden instruments in general. A couple of things...age matters...mostly for the wood fully dry, and for the resins to set. A kiln dried piece of wood doesn't cut it. It needs time. Part of the reason for gems and dogs I suppose could be the aging process. Conversely, other wooden string instruments, like violins, are made with "drowned" wood...sometimes underwater for decades before it is bent, carved and shaped. Then there is also the effect that subtle defects have on overall resonance. A few dings and nicks are actually needed to allow the instrument to sound "right". Otherwise certain harmonics are accentuated or diminished. The cheap Chinese knock off Stadivari's even purposely cut in the nicks to look like the originals. Why any of this effects an electric guitar that produces sound signals produced by thin strand of metal vibrating in a magnetic field inducing current flow in conductive coils of copper wire is beyond me.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:22 pm
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wferguson wrote:
What are the causes behind 50's and 60's Fenders being put on a pedestal above all others? And why are pickups unintentionally overwound in the 60's better than modern pickups that are intentionally overwound today? Just my two cents.

a good two cents wferguson, some collectors take that part of owning a guitar very seriously, I have owned gear that would bring remarkable dollars on todays market, emphasis on the word owned.
Who are these people that put original Fenders on a pedestal?
On the second question, it may be individual preferance more than "better" performance

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:35 am
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>ARE VINTAGE GUITARS REALLY WORTH IT?

Depends on what the "it" is.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:06 am
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The 2014 Mojotone 60th Anniversary strat pickups are authentic clones of original 1954 Stratocaster pickups. We didn't just copy any old set from a 1954 Stratocaster either. The original 1954 pickups were very inconsistent with output from one to the next. We literally listened to several '54 strats only to find some were ok and some only had one great sounding pickup out of all three.
Mojotone combined the best of the best to create the ultimate piano like tone out of all 3 pickups. Every detail was painstakingly accounted for including the right materials and manufacturing methods. Each coil is handwound in the same direction to the exact same 1954 specifications. Custom made "poured" sand cast Alnico 3 magnets (raised D magnet like the originals), 50's spec heavy Formvar coil wire, nitrocellulose lacquered bobbins just like the originals.

Who wouldn't want a 1954 Stratocaster? I would, but I would much more want a guitar that has consistently good pickups. This is just something else I found to further my case. And if you need that "vintage" build, many pickup makers replicate the building process as shown above. Yeah '54s are great, but the build and quality control is so much more better today. Fender and many others build vintage reissues that look and sound just like the old ones but are consistently better that just wasn't possible with 50's and 60's technology.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:37 pm
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wferguson wrote:
Yeah '54s are great, but the build and quality control is so much more better today.


Yeah, it's great that the new ones don't have the finish on their necks flaking off, their low E strings don't fall off the necks, and the plastics aren't wearing away and/or cracking into pieces.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:17 pm
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orvilleowner wrote:
wferguson wrote:
Yeah '54s are great, but the build and quality control is so much more better today.


Yeah, it's great that the new ones don't have the finish on their necks flaking off, their low E strings don't fall off the necks, and the plastics aren't wearing away and/or cracking into pieces.


Let's see...
Plastic coating that prevents the wood from breathing or drying out evenly.
Cheap screws that aren't machined but rolled - if you unscrew/rescrew them you harm the wood a bit more each time until the screws fall out of a big hole.
Fretwire edges cut by a machine, taking revenge by cutting your hand.
Lower quality woods.
Thinner fretboard on the neck, making re-fretting harder.
Nuts, bridges and necks that won't work with really thick strings (what was called "standard" before).

But there are many improvements too. The newer pickguards don't creep as badly. The tuners stay better in tune. Micro-tilt is a lot easier than trying to add washers. And the pickups are more consistent. Not necessarily better, but you seldom get a bridge and neck pickup that sound nothing alike.


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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:52 pm
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arth1 wrote:
orvilleowner wrote:
wferguson wrote:
Yeah '54s are great, but the build and quality control is so much more better today.


Yeah, it's great that the new ones don't have the finish on their necks flaking off, their low E strings don't fall off the necks, and the plastics aren't wearing away and/or cracking into pieces.


Let's see...
Plastic coating that prevents the wood from breathing or drying out evenly.


Vintage times they used Fullerplast from 62 on it sealed the body in a coat of plastic rock hard the wood would not dry out an helped with applying finish. The finish would not be absorb into the wood so it was easier to apply. Before then Fender still used sealers on the bodies. People think that vintage guitars could breath and play better because they had thin lacquer finishes when really it was over a coat of Fullerplast that was rock hard.

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Post subject: Re: Are vintage guitars really worth it?
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:24 pm
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The only reason people think nitro is better is because one pass of nitro is thinner than one pass of poly, therefore a thinner finish, but if you had a same level thickness of nitro as you did poly they would both allow or disallow the wood to resonate the same.

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