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Post subject: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:08 pm
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Hey guys, so I am buying a 40W Blues Deluxe Reissue, Fender of course, tube amp and am buying a used one.
I have 2 options, get one with stock, 12" special design Eminence speaker, or one that the owner swapped the speaker to a UK made vintage Celestion 30 12" speaker.

The one with Celestion speaker is cheaper, had all tubes replaced with new ones this year, on position v1 the tube 12ax7 was replaced by a EH 12ay7, but all the other tubes were replaced by new, stock ones.
The one with the stock speaker is more expensive and no tubes have been replaced (a 3years old amp).

What would be a better option, which speaker is better and why? :)

Thanks for your time guys.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:13 pm
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Both are very good. Is there a possibility to try them?

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:14 pm
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No OEM Eminence has ever shown me much. Go for the Celestion -- V30's sound great with just about any amp regardless of brand.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:35 pm
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If possible,...try both amps and let YOUR EARS be the judge! :!: IMO,...the Eminence is okay and is fine if you like the warmer tone of the amp overall. I have tried this amp in store with stock Eminence speaker and factory tubes,and I think it's just fine,...though some don't like Eminence. The Celestion speaker in my HRDlx III amp is also a good speaker.
It's the G12-80P(or P80,...I always seem to get it backwards for some reason LOL!!!!!!)Celestion. I'd be happy with either one as Eminence and Celestion are both good
brands. I hope to get the BDRI soon myself and mine will be kept factory stock. My HRDlx III is also going to remain factory stock as well. (Outside of maybe changing tube brands when a re-tube becomes necessary,or needing capacitors replaced after a few years,it will stay factory original! I don't view modifications as the being same as repairs,...but that's a whole different subject. Repairs are one thing,...modifications are another.)

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:38 pm
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Eminence and Celestion both have very good quality and consistency, and each has a broad variety of models with very distinct voicings. Neither company produces any particular model that really sounds all that much like the other brand's "equivalent model" IMHO.

Both brands have models I strongly dislike with some amps, and both brands have certain models I couldn't be without, with some amps.

The real chore is to find the few models (from either or both brands) out of the huge product range that really best suit a particular amp, cabinet, playing style, etc., and then compare those fewer models extensively, to pick your personal favorite(s), based on how a mic sees it, how it records, how it sits in your band mix, etc.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:40 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Eminence and Celestion both have very good quality and consistency, and each has a broad variety of models with very distinct voicings.


The OP does not seek a detailed dissertation of each company's complete product line-up. He asked about two specific speakers. Helpful opinions will be limited to discussing the relative merits of those models only, as installed in a Blues Deluxe re-issue.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:12 am
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Thanks for opinion guys :) Yep I am only interested in the 2 speakers I mentioned in the opening post.

I could go and test both, but wanted to know whether one is substantially better than the other. Price also plays a role, especially as one amp had the tubes replaced whereas the other amp's tubes are 3 years old. So if one is expensive towards the other and the quality is either the same or inferior, I'd want to know in advance so I don't waste my time driving to test both :)

So the Eminence one is warmer than the Celestion, is there any other difference noticeable between the two?

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:28 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
No OEM Eminence has ever shown me much. Go for the Celestion -- V30's sound great with just about any amp regardless of brand.

Arjay


I agree. You really need to step out of Fender's OEM Eminence speaker. If it had say one of the Red Coat or Patriot series Eminence speakers, I'd say go for it, but that stock Eminence gets really flubby when you push it. It's barely okay when you don't. The V30 is a fine sounding speaker. If the tubes were just changed, I'd try it out. Don't be afraid to push it either and don't be in a hurry. Pushing an amp will make a lot of issues apparent if there are any. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:52 am
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Celestion, I'd say. :)

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:36 am
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Celestion from me too.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:01 am
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Here's my 2c.
The one with the Celestion and new tubes would be my first option due to the fact that these are usually the first two items that are generally replaced in any stock Fender amp. This is already a savings of $150 or more, which is what it would cost for a set of new tubes and a used V30 if you wanted to put these same upgrades in the stock amp. Not to mention that its already less expensive than the stock one. :wink:

My advise, try it out and if it passes with flying colors go for it.

Good luck.

P.S.
I have a Celestion Greenback and V30 running in one of my 212 cabs and a V30 and Oxford running in the other 212. Both sound sweet.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:00 am
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63supro wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
...Go for the Celestion -- V30's sound great with just about any amp regardless of brand.

Don't be afraid to push it either and don't be in a hurry. Pushing an amp will make a lot of issues apparent if there are any. :wink:

Words to live by.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:24 am
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I'm not a big fan of the V30 and it wouldn't be my first choice for any Fender-voiced amp. But it's a very good speaker and I'd choose it over the OEM Eminence. (At the very least, you could remove it and sell it for more than twice what you'd get for the OEM Emi, then use that money toward another premium speaker if the V30 doesn't float your boat.)

Tube life depends on how hot the bias is, and how long & how hard the tubes are used. Fender tends to bias their amps on the cold side -- if the previous owner didn't crank that amp loud and often those power tubes could have years of life left in them. If the re-tubed amp was biased hot and the owner played loud gigs every night, those tubes could be worn out, or on the verge of being worn out. So unless you know the usage history of a used tube amp, you should really expect to have to retube sooner rather than later, and be pleasantly surprised if the tubes that are in it last a long time.

You say the Celestion-loaded amp was retubed with the same type of tubes that came stock (except for one EH 12AX7). The stock tubes are decent but not great -- so given that there's no guarantee they haven't been worked to death it's not really an upgrade.

BDRI's aren't the most reliable amps in the world. Since the one with the more expensive speaker and newer tubes has a lower asking price, I'd be a little bit worried that just maybe the seller is getting rid of it because it's been giving him problems.

Personally, I'd look for one that's got a Weber or Emi Patriot-series speaker. If it's been retubed I'd want tubes that are better than stock.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:41 am
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Thanks for advice everyone :) As far as I can tell atm, the Celestion one is probably a better choice. One question - when trying it out - should I crank it louder than gig/band practice volume? This will be my first tube amp, so I am a bit of a newbie when it comes to anything that's not SS :P

According to the seller, the tubes have been played for 1 or 2 hours since he replaced them. The tung-sol lamps are still, supposedly, at 80-90% life (those haven't been replaced). So is it safe to assume that those tubes are way better than any 3 years old tubes? :)

Well the stock speaker BDRI, 3 years old, costs 600€ and a new one costs 750€ (it was listed at 850€ actually like a week ago, seems like they dropped the prices lol xP), so I do assume that one is a bit pricey. The Celestion one costs 577€. So it could just be that the guy selling the stock BDRI is asking for too much, rather than the guy with Celestion one selling it too cheap to be true.

Sadly ebay is not an option for me (shipping and import fees almost double the price - I'm from EU, not from USA) so I can't really be too picky about my amp requirements if I am buying a used one ;) Heck the Celestion one was added to the market about 2 or 3 days ago, the only other BDRI being sold for 2 weeks since I've been looking was the one with the stock speaker :P

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Post subject: Re: Eminence vs Celestion
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:54 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the V30 and it wouldn't be my first choice for any Fender-voiced amp. But it's a very good speaker and I'd choose it over the OEM Eminence. (At the very least, you could remove it and sell it for more than twice what you'd get for the OEM Emi, then use that money toward another premium speaker if the V30 doesn't float your boat.)

Tube life depends on how hot the bias is, and how long & how hard the tubes are used. Fender tends to bias their amps on the cold side -- if the previous owner didn't crank that amp loud and often those power tubes could have years of life left in them. If the re-tubed amp was biased hot and the owner played loud gigs every night, those tubes could be worn out, or on the verge of being worn out. So unless you know the usage history of a used tube amp, you should really expect to have to retube sooner rather than later, and be pleasantly surprised if the tubes that are in it last a long time.

You say the Celestion-loaded amp was retubed with the same type of tubes that came stock (except for one EH 12AX7). The stock tubes are decent but not great -- so given that there's no guarantee they haven't been worked to death it's not really an upgrade.

BDRI's aren't the most reliable amps in the world. Since the one with the more expensive speaker and newer tubes has a lower asking price, I'd be a little bit worried that just maybe the seller is getting rid of it because it's been giving him problems.

Personally, I'd look for one that's got a Weber or Emi Patriot-series speaker. If it's been retubed I'd want tubes that are better than stock.


None of the HRD series amps are what I would call "Fender Voiced". The Blues Deluxe is a little more reliable than the HRDlx. It's also a little darker sounding too. I think the Celestion would help. I agree about Weber. I'm a big fan and have a Alnico 12a125 in my 5e3 clone and my 74 Champ too. I wouldn't sink any money into a HRD amp. The fact still remains, if the OP likes it roll with it.

And yes, I would crank that amp beyond what you would normally play it. Turn it all the way up and listen to it without a guitar plugged in and with. Turn the volume all the way down on the guitar and turn it up gradually little bits at a time. Listen for crackles and other odd noises.
The HRD series amps have always been hit and miss.

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