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Post subject: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:45 am
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I have a squier standard telecaster that has a nice chunky C neck. On the specs online, it's called a "C profile". Standard C, not Modern C, with a 42mm nut with. I wanted to get another identical neck, but with a maple fingerboard, and saw the Squier '51 has the same exact specs on the neck, except tfor the board being maple, instead of rosewood. When I went to the music store to pick it my order, I was quite disappointed and never made the purchase. The neck was Ibanez thin! Does anybody know how can the same neck carve be so different on two guitars? and, has anyone else experienced this?


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:45 pm
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I suspect one of two possibilities.

1) You were given wrong information about one (or maybe both) of the guitars.
or
2) The difference is all in your perception …. for reason(s) only you could figure out.

With the cost of labour, even overseas, it isn't economically feasible to carve and sand necks by hand anymore and still maintain a low price point. CNC machining has been used by Fender for quite a while now and it provides Fender with two important things: lowered manufacturing costs and consistency. Consistency is the word that applies to you in this regard. I currently own four Fender electric guitars with exactly the same neck profile. It doesn't matter if it's a Tele or a Strat the neck has the same feel because the profile is consistent. There is a slightly different look as you move up the neck on the Strat and Tele and sometimes your visual cues helping you keep track of where you are can change (I don't rely solely on side markers) but that's related to body shape, not neck shape.

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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:15 pm
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Thanks for your reply. To add some more info to my initial inquiry, this was not a perception on my part. I was at a music store, and two sales people, and myself all saw and felt the difference in the neck thickness. We even A/B'd the neck with two Fender guitars in stock. It was a huge difference... I also own several Fenders, but these guitars were actually Squiers, one being my son's guitar, which has a great neck carve, and the other being the one I ordered; hoping the same feel. The specs are provided on Fender/Squier's own homepage. My initial thought is that there was a mistake or misprint in either the marketing/website specs, or possibly, they have have poor quality control at this plant.


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:31 pm
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More than likely a typo rather than a QC issue if the difference was that dramatic. Maybe if it was a slight difference I could see it being a QC issue. CNC is consistent. The parts are made by machines but the assembly is still mostly done by hand even in the far east. They wouldn't repair a neck by milling it smaller if initial machining revealed an internal flaw in the wood and then refinish it and still use it in the same guitar. It's a mass production line. They'd toss a bad neck aside and grab another. I don't think it's probable but I guess it is possible they might gather up those culls and remachine them to a thinner profile but that process would result in the necks being reclassified to another profile. I suppose it's also possible that one neck from a different classification was accidentally mixed up with necks of another profile. I don't think that's probable either though. They tend to make parts in batches.

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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:42 pm
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dreamality wrote:
I have a squier standard telecaster that has a nice chunky C neck. On the specs online, it's called a "C profile". Standard C, not Modern C, with a 42mm nut with. I wanted to get another identical neck, but with a maple fingerboard, and saw the Squier '51 has the same exact specs on the neck, except tfor the board being maple, instead of rosewood. When I went to the music store to pick it my order, I was quite disappointed and never made the purchase. The neck was Ibanez thin! Does anybody know how can the same neck carve be so different on two guitars? and, has anyone else experienced this?


A C neck strictly speaking means it is 1.75" wide at the nut, or 44mm, wider than the 41 mm that's standard on modern narrow B-neck Fenders. The American Standard has a nut that's in-between the two, at around 42mm - it's not a true "C".
To complicate it further, a "modern" neck will be thinner than a 50's or 60's neck. Even if they're all Cs.


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:06 am
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arth1 wrote:
dreamality wrote:
I have a squier standard telecaster that has a nice chunky C neck. On the specs online, it's called a "C profile". Standard C, not Modern C, with a 42mm nut with. I wanted to get another identical neck, but with a maple fingerboard, and saw the Squier '51 has the same exact specs on the neck, except tfor the board being maple, instead of rosewood. When I went to the music store to pick it my order, I was quite disappointed and never made the purchase. The neck was Ibanez thin! Does anybody know how can the same neck carve be so different on two guitars? and, has anyone else experienced this?


A C neck strictly speaking means it is 1.75" wide at the nut, or 44mm, wider than the 41 mm that's standard on modern narrow B-neck Fenders. The American Standard has a nut that's in-between the two, at around 42mm - it's not a true "C".
To complicate it further, a "modern" neck will be thinner than a 50's or 60's neck. Even if they're all Cs.



I appreciate your feedback, but I believe you may have some of your facts wrong. "C" is the shape of the (back) neck profile, and has nothing to do with the nut width. Also, your nut widths are incorrect. the vintage nuts of the 50's and 60's are a width of 1 5/8 inches, or 41mm. They came in several neck profiles too. Most Fender MIM, and Squier Standard guitars have a nut width of 1.650", or 42 mm, with different neck carves too. Mostly standard "C", which should be chunkier than the other option, "Modern C". The American Standard Fenders, have another nut width of 42.8mm-43mm depending on the hand sanding and how thick the finish on the neck. The American made Fender miodels also come with different neck carves. There is no "B" carve as far as I know from Fender. There is C, Modern C, soft or hard "V", "U", and a couple others on specialty models, like "SRV nut carve", etc...

My main concern was the two guitars I was initially speaking of, have identical specs online at Fender/Squier's website, (except the fingerboard wood), but they are actually two completely different necks in reality. I actually read on another Fender forum that this occurrence is not so unusual. There was a '94 MIM Fender/Squier that had inconsistent neck profiles. There may be another rational explanation, but my only conclusions right now is poor quality control; that they are taken from different batches, or they were marketed incorrectly.


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:35 am
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sounds like the scenario would be hey jose i ran out of necks but got one more body to go before quitting time... oh gee juan .. i have just one neck left and no body to put it on.. ok done siesta time ole!!!!


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:21 am
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Neck profiles have always been a major topic of conversation in these Forums....often controversial, to say the least. I recall a comment by Mike Eldred to the effect that, years ago, letter designations had been assigned to neck profiles of certain specifications which had nothing to do with the shape/carve of the back of the neck. Not all guitar manufacturers describe their neck profiles in terms of letter.

I had an issue with the neck shape on a guitar the Custom Shop built for me some years back. It wasn't exactly the shape/feel of the Clapton neck I had requested for the guitar. The neck also had a rosewood board spec. I had the opportunity to discuss this with one of the masterbuilders on an occasion and he speculated that the placement of a rosewood board as opposed to a solid maple neck might have contributed to the final outcome.

When the so-called 'modern C neck' was introduced it design was touted as having a fuller, rounder shoulder with a played in feeling. Compared to the neck on my Gilmour, described as a '57V'[referring to the necks of the Vintage Reissue series guitars which Fender began producing in the early '80's at their new startup] it has a much thicker'feel to it.

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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:47 am
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A, B, C, and D necks refer to the nut width, not the shape.

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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:28 am
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There are some examples of neck shapes, including C shapes, on this page...

http://www.fender.com/custom-shop/how-to-order/


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:04 am
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wferguson wrote:
A, B, C, and D necks refer to the nut width, not the shape.


Fender used those nut width designations back in the '50s and '60s. Back then, they didn't offer different neck profile options -- all Strats built during a year had more or less the same profile (with random variations due to hand-shaping of the neck). But you could special-order different nut widths.

Nowadays, you can't special-order nut widths (except from the Custom Shop). So C-profile, D-profile, U-profile, and V-profile do indeed represent shape, not width. "Modern C" is a profile, not a width.

CNC machines are only used to rough-shape long cylindrical shapes like necks. It's just a router bit mounted on a robot arm and leaves slight ridges/grooves. Then a worker does a few light quick rolls of the neck on a belt sander to smooth it out. The worker should only spend a second or so, just bringing the high spots down to the low spots. But an inattentive worker, an angry worker, a tired worker can easily leave the neck on the belt too long or apply too much pressure, and once he/she establishes a flat spot he/she then has to take a lot more wood off to blend it in.

Workers in the US and Mexico factories are decently paid and well-treated. But many of the sub-contractors used in Squier production are close to sweat shops. It's entirely reasonable to expect that some off-shore necks can differ significantly from their ideal specs.


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Post subject: Re: same neck profile, but different on two guitars
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:43 am
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wferguson wrote:
A, B, C, and D necks refer to the nut width, not the shape.

There ya go!! It's also important to remember that the only way standardization of the finishing of neck might come close is by using a computerized sander. The human factor cannot help but NOT introduce a small error and I trust there's a tolerance built in for that.

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