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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:01 pm
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arth1 wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
arth1 wrote:
But to get really good instruments, there must be a human factor, or there won't ever be any excellence.

Enter...The Custom Shop. But we've had some wrinkles in there, too. :?




I think I won the gamble with the Select I bought earlier this year. Best guitar I've ever played. If I find a conscientious luthier who can file the frets down to vintage size for me, I think I'm all set for my retirement years.
.

Thats about as far from a vintage neck you can get on the Fender Select Strat since it's a modern C shape and a compound radius neck. The Medium Jumbo frets are to wide to make them even feel like vintage. Height wise I believe they are almost the same.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:29 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Perth, Western Aus.
arth1 wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Really, please tell us how you've ascertained this. So that means US workers are the only ones with pride in what they create? Whatta load of crap.

Yes, its a load of crap, and it's also not what I said. You're putting words in my mouth, and I don't know about your culture, but where I am, that's considered rather rude.

It's pretty clear what you said, it was brief enough not to be misinterpreted. How many of these people are paid a 'pittance to survive'? How can you speak for a whole region, and claim none of them care about the work they do? What do you know about the costs of living, versus wages in Asian countries? Not a lot, clearly. If I'm being rude, it's because you're being ignorant and generalising, which perpetuates stereotypes.

I've been to places like Indonesia and other places the US would call '3rd world' countries, and they are far from it, most are economically progressive. Yes, they get paid less than comparable US workers (who doesn't?), but the costs of living are also significantly lower, so you can't assume all are working in sweat shops under duress, which the direct inference of your 'pittance' wages comment. Does it happen, of course it does, but you can't generalise, and it happens in the US and Europe too.

Cort, for example, is one of the biggest guitar makers in the world, and much of its production comes out of Indonesia and Korea, from state of the art factories. Factories good enough to put their tour vids on yootoob. They make guitars for Ibanez, Squier and G&L to name a few. They have massive economies of scale, and lower overheads.

Working in such places for many, would be considered a 'plum job'. If we are going to introduce stereotypes, what about the one about Asians having thousands of years of history as artisans and craftsmen?


Last edited by Drubbing on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:25 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Made in Korea.
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Made in Korea.
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Made in Korea.
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I have absolutely no problem with Korean craftsmanship. Of course, I do modify a little. There was certainly nothing wrong with the Duncan Designed pickups that were in the Esprit. I just had a good set of Gibson pickups on hand that are perfect for this guitar. Nothing wrong with the bridge either, but I do like locking Tone Pros for keeping the bottom piece in place while changing strings. The Cort was more of a design change. I wasn't a fan of gold hardware on this particular guitar. But I do like the gold and black look. The pickups were Duncan '59 sounding. Not my thing. I've never really been a fan of '59s.

But in terms of craftsmanship, these guitars are very good. The Cort being the smoothest. I can get the action lower than any of my other guitars. It's a crazy good fret job on it. I'd have to say though, the margin of error is a very slim margin between the 3 guitars

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:17 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Thats about as far from a vintage neck you can get on the Fender Select Strat since it's a modern C shape and a compound radius neck.

Tele, not Strat, but yes. I'm not a believer in vintage everything. Many newer things are better, in my opinion, including the compound radius and necks not stamped with "Willie Mays".

But the modern medium jumbo frets, I find too big.

cvilleira wrote:
The Medium Jumbo frets are to wide to make them even feel like vintage.

Thus why I want them filed into a more narrow shape with a smaller radius.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:14 am
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Here's my experience. In Slovenia, there is no real Gibson official retailer. There are a couple shops where you could order a guitar and then wait a month until they get it, pay 10% in advance, but tough luck if you don't like it. So I went ahead and searched through the net, found a Gibson LP studio that I liked and wasn't too expensive and I went ahead and ordered it from Germany, Thomann online store which was recommended to me (if anyone knows of it). I paid less than what I would if I ordered the guitar through one of the guitar shops (and the nearest one is 60 km from me, but here I could do everything from my chair), had to wait less than a week (whereas ordering through the shop would mean waiting at least a month) and was satisfied with the product.
About a month after I've owned, and loved, the axe, the potentiometers started to fail. The guitar was just out of the "return if you don't like it" policy, but was still within the warranty (the minimum warranty, which is also the warranty you get for pretty much everything here, is 2 years, and that was also the case with the guitar). I phoned Thomann, sent it back. After a week or so, the guitar came back. In the same packing as it was when I packed it to send it back, looking as if it was unopened. It actually was unopened. The post sent it to Germany, but apparently the post here didn't know there was a deal with Thomann that they pay the shipping fee (if one sends it back due to something failing while in the warranty), and the post in Germany sent it directly back, without the guitar ever reaching the store. I had to pay the shipping fee again. I phoned Thomann again, they said I must send it back and explain to the our post office that there is a deal between Thomann and their post office. They said I should send the shipping fee bill to them as well, so that they'd cover the costs despite the guitar not even reaching their shop the first time. Needless to say, I didn't even take the bill from the post as I was pissed with the post office :lol: But still, it is very nice to know that they would cover something that was not their fault at all, just to satisfy the customer.

Anyway I sent it back up, within 10 days I got it back in a new packaging (something I expected), but what I didn't expect at all was that I'd get a brand new guitar instead of a repaired one, which is what happened :) I have had the guitar for about 3 years now, the only thing that failed in that time was a pickup selector (I did abuse that during a couple of songs - to get he cracking effect of sound vs no sound quickly changing, by decreasing the volume of one pickup to 0 and one to 10 and switching back and forth between the pickups very quickly). It was still within the warranty period, sent it back and got a repaired one back within 10 days again (despite the pickup selector being something that not everyone would cover with the warranty - it does fall into the category of 'wear and tear' things after all). That was 2 years ago and there have been no problem since.

Needless to say, I bought from Thomann again and will continue to buy. Haven't been in the market for a guitar (except a Fender Strat when went to the official retailer 60kms from me so I could try several out first - bought a Highway1 Strat and am very happy with it), but if I were - I wouldn't think twice whether to consider Thomann as an option to buy from. I'd go ahead and order it without any fear :) I have bought several other stuff from Thomann during that time. The shipping is 25€ no matter what one buys and stuff is cheaper there. So buying 10 packs of strings already covers your shipping cost and you get other stuff cheaper as well, not to mention how more comfy it is to get something delivered to your home :P So all in all it pays out to buy from reliable online shops that have a good customer service.

So if you do not get a faulty item replaced, I'd say you should never buy from that online store again. If the item isn't faulty, but also not something you expected - there's usually a 1 month period when you can return it and get your money back (minus the shipping charge). Seeing how the guitar was within the specs, it is only the store's good will to give you a new guitar and to consider the guitar as "faulty" ;)

Just my 2 cents anyway :)

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:58 pm
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Re working at Cort being a plum job: There are several hundred Korean ex-Cort workers who would vehemently deny that statement.The Cort factory in Korea was lambasted by several international human rights and worker's rights groups for its abysmal treatment of workers and the appalling working conditions that they literally slaved under.After all the allegations were thoroughly investigated by a United Nations sanctioned task force, many managers and company executives were charged with assault and battery,mental and verbal abuse and just about every aspect of sexual assault in the law books.Workers were paid way below the minimum wage as mandated by the Korean government and were immediately fired or had their families threatened if they spoke up or threatened to go to authorities with their complaints.

The safety measures in the plant were non-existent and workers were forced to sand off guitar bodies and do spray painting with no protective breathing equipment or goggles-not even so much as a 10 cent paper mask.Workers finally went on strike and Cort's solution to the strike was to close down the plant and move operations to China where most likely they now have a captive work force of prison inmates.They got away with paying workers way below the legal minimum wage by setting up the factory in the most destitute area of Korea where people were so desperate for income that they even would take a job that only paid 1/2 the legal minimum wage and if they quit they knew that there were dozens waiting in line to replace them.

Just about every musician who had an endorsement deal with Cort pulled out their support and in fact a lot of them performed at a Cort protest at the 2011 NAMM convention,in support of the displaced Cort workers.Of all the companies that sub-contracted guitar construction to Cort only Fender had the decency to meet with the Cort workers and listened while they stated their case.Anyway through donations to their cause made by people and organizations around the world,the ex Cort workers were able to set up a large farming cooperative that has become quite profitable and self-sufficient.I forget the web site that all of this was on-even though I was very involved in promoting their cause-but I believe it went by the name Cort-Action. If you were to take the time to read all of the atrocities that these people had to endure in order to keep their jobs,like I did,you would vow to never buy another product made by these sadistic ogres.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.


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