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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:41 pm
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wferguson wrote:
Fender mailed me another strat after I mailed the first one off. The tremolo was fine, but the new one had some finishing flaws, lines going across the body like wood that was painted before being sealed and the paint was absorbed into the wood grain lines. I decided to just enjoy the guitar and accept there was going to be something wrong with all of them and I would rather it be a finishing flaw than an internal one, so I kept that one instead of bringing the issue up.


Help me understand, you weren't happy with the first one, the second one(body) left a sour taste in your mouth, and after threatening to never buy fender again......you buy one sight unseen over the internet? Hmmmm....... :?:

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:44 pm
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arth1 wrote:
[
But to get really good instruments, there must be a human factor, or there won't ever be any excellence.

Enter...The Custom Shop. But we've had some wrinkles in there, too. :?

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:49 pm
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Help me understand, you weren't happy with the first one, the second one(body) left a sour taste in your mouth, and after threatening to never buy fender again......you buy one sight unseen over the internet? Hmmmm....... :?:


I thought I would give them another chance, seeing how my last two Fender purchases were fine, so sorry this upsets you.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:00 pm
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wferguson wrote:
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Help me understand, you weren't happy with the first one, the second one(body) left a sour taste in your mouth, and after threatening to never buy fender again......you buy one sight unseen over the internet? Hmmmm....... :?:


I thought I would give them another chance, seeing how my last two Fender purchases were fine, so sorry this upsets you.


It doesn't upset me, on the contrary. It seems like in this case it's simply aesthetics as the gap falls within the specified tolerance. At least that's how I understood the explanation given by Rob.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:38 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
arth1 wrote:
But to get really good instruments, there must be a human factor, or there won't ever be any excellence.

Enter...The Custom Shop. But we've had some wrinkles in there, too. :?


Of course. But that's the yang to the yin. It's the variation that creates excellence that also sometimes creates the opposite. If you want the really good stuff in life, it's a gamble you have to take until you win. The odds aren't too bad.

I think I won the gamble with the Select I bought earlier this year. Best guitar I've ever played. If I find a conscientious luthier who can file the frets down to vintage size for me, I think I'm all set for my retirement years.
I do drool over a Yuri masterbuilt Tele that's for sale, and may go for it, but it'd be a gamble. As it should be.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:49 am
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arth1 wrote:
It's the variation that creates excellence that also sometimes creates the opposite.

That used to be the fly in the ointment with respect to quality control years ago, particularly where guitar pickups were concerned, hence the creation of Ybara legend. Running through contemporary sound systems, the overwound pups of, let's say SRV's #1, became the gold standard for tone freaks, but those pups were actually dogs with respect to what should have been spec Thus came the pursuit of reproducing the mistake instead of what was actually designed.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:09 pm
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I seem to recall that some parts of the Highway One series instruments were milled in Mexico (they don't tell you about that aspect very often). Since the American Specials are in just about the same price range, it wouldn't surprise me if your neck pocket slop came from south of the border. Hopefully I'm dead wrong.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:42 pm
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divebomb wrote:
I seem to recall that some parts of the Highway One series instruments were milled in Mexico (they don't tell you about that aspect very often). Since the American Specials are in just about the same price range, it wouldn't surprise me if your neck pocket slop came from south of the border. Hopefully I'm dead wrong.


You mean sloppy workmanship can't come from the USA? :lol: I've seen sloppy workmanship from everywhere. I worked as a machinist for years and we had good workers and some as long as it's in tolerance or even a little bit out of spec, it's okay workers. I was one of the "dead nuts" kind of workers and worked hard at it. If the pocket is too tight to start with, there's no room for expansion. My six cigarbox guitars have slop in the neck pockets I make. I use four bolt necks and have no issues and people who play them are amazed at how well they play. If I had a milling machine, I''d still leave room.

Those bodies are made on CNC machining centers. Probably the same one's they use here so the programing is consistent. All you have to do is put a blank in a fixture and the machine does the rest. Dull tooling can be a factor, but if it's in spec, it's in spec.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:47 pm
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63supro wrote:
divebomb wrote:
I seem to recall that some parts of the Highway One series instruments were milled in Mexico (they don't tell you about that aspect very often). Since the American Specials are in just about the same price range, it wouldn't surprise me if your neck pocket slop came from south of the border. Hopefully I'm dead wrong.


You mean sloppy workmanship can't come from the USA? :lol: I've seen sloppy workmanship from everywhere. I worked as a machinist for years and we had good workers and some as long as it's in tolerance or even a little bit out of spec, it's okay workers. I was one of the "dead nuts" kind of workers and worked hard at it. If the pocket is too tight to start with, there's no room for expansion. My six cigarbox guitars have slop in the neck pockets I make. I use four bolt necks and have no issues and people who play them are amazed at how well they play. If I had a milling machine, I''d still leave room.

Those bodies are made on CNC machining centers. Probably the same one's they use here so the programing is consistent. All you have to do is put a blank in a fixture and the machine does the rest. Dull tooling can be a factor, but if it's in spec, it's in spec.


No. If I meant that sloppy workmanship can't come from the USA, I would have written something akin to "sloppy workmanship can't come from the USA". But I didn't.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:57 am
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Are you guys sure that gap was worth complaint?


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:59 pm
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I just don't see to much quality still with an Am. Special, as compared to an Am. Standard. For what ever reason. All things are not equal here, at least from what I've tried on Am. Special basses in shops. I'd go with a good used Am. Standard, over a new Am. Special. The Highway one series was at least about $400. dollars less than The Am. Standard.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:20 pm
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WildintheStreets wrote:
Are you guys sure that gap was worth complaint?

Guys on guitar forums seem to. Given the 'knowledge' or rather, anal research that so many do, it's a wonder why no one can see why a gap is needed for expansion. If I had a perfectly fitted neck, I'd be more concerned about cracking paint than aesthetics.

arth1 wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
Further supporting my observations about the workmanship or lack thereof of the American-made guitars vs. that of Asian countries from a few weeks ago that nobody wanted to hear.


It's not that simple.
Yes, Far East factories do replication work extremely well, as long as your requirements are detailed enough. But there's seldom much pride in the product, only pride in fulfilling the obligations..

Really, please tell us how you've ascertained this. So that means US workers are the only ones with pride in what they create? Whatta load of crap.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:45 pm
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[quote= So that means US workers are the only ones with pride in what they create? Whatta load of crap.[/quote]

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:46 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
Really, please tell us how you've ascertained this. So that means US workers are the only ones with pride in what they create? Whatta load of crap.

Yes, its a load of crap, and it's also not what I said. You're putting words in my mouth, and I don't know about your culture, but where I am, that's considered rather rude.

It's hard to have pride in what you do when you get paid a pittance and do it to survive. No matter where you are. For what it's worth, I think that the highest pride in workmanship is not in the US, but in Northern Europe. But that probably goes hand in hand with the standard of living and much higher wages.
And when you outsource to the lowest bidder, you cannot expect pride in workmanship. You may get what you ask for, but seldom more.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:15 pm
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All one has to do is to pick up a MIM Jimmie Vaughn Strat (he actually prefers MIM Strats to US models,he was recently quoted as saying)or a Buddy Guy model to see and hear the quality that Mexican craftsmen and women are capable of turning out.My Jimmie Vaughn Stat is quite simply flawless and its only fault-if you can call it that-is that it has the recently added potentiometer layout that has become so popular and that's having the rear tone pot control both the middle and the bridge pickups.After literally growing up with the old style layout where the rear tone pot controlled only the middle pickup,I have become used to that setup and prefer it over the new layout especially because the new setup prevents a guitarist from switching the pickup selector between the rear and mid pickup to get a wah wah effect when the tone is backed off the mid pickup.

The fit and finish of the Jimmie Vaughn is simply of the highest order as is the hardware used.The Tex-Mex pickups come very close to the sparkle and quack of the "L" series Strats,which have always been my favourite sounding Strat pickups.The vibrato mechanism is rock steady with regard to holding the tuning true,once I had it set up to my particular liking,using my usual gauge and brand of strings.All in all this bad mouthing of MIM Fenders is the instigated by people whotry to sound knowledgeable about the topic but don't realize that they are using info that's at the very least 15 years old and is no longer the case at all,in fact quite the opposite is true.

BTW: A very large percentage of the workers in the Calif. Fender plants are Mexican-American or of Mexican heritage.So both the U.S. and Mexican workforces are from the same gene pool.

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