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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:32 pm
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Rob mate, I'd love to get endorsed by Fender, you guys can make a signature model NB Strat, Priced at a little cheaper than the Am. Standard :D

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:30 pm
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Fender customer service in action. I love it. I think it's very cool of Rob to put himself out there and address someone on a forum. I think that alone shows that he cares.

There's always been something that stuck in my head back when I bought a Squier Classic vibe online. First of all, you don't really get the actual guitar shown, that's a given. When my Squier came, the first thing I noticed was that the clear coat already showed checking in it. Very odd for a brand new guitar. I could have sent it back, but I decided to let it slide.

The reason I let it slide was because I knew going into it that ordering a guitar online is like getting your food at the drive through window. You're gonna get what they give you and when you finally make it home and find something wrong, are you gonna go back? That's why Taco Bell gives you broken taco shells at the drive through. The workers are actually instructed to. So was this particular guitar specifically set aside to be shipped out instead of making it to their showroom floor for an obvious reason? I'm betting it was.

I kept the guitar, but never bought through that site again. How much of this was also the decision of the online store that shipped the guitar out with that gap in it? Why didn't they return it to Fender instead of shipping it cross country when they're so close to Corona?

If I'm buying a new guitar for $900, I'm buying one that I physically get my hands on to inspect first. I can go to Guitar Center or Sam Ash and ask them to get what I'm looking for first, then physically inspect it first. In the past, they've asked for a deposit, but if the guitar wasn't in good shape, they deal with it, not me. And they've always given me the option to use the deposit on something else if I choose. To me, it's the best way to keep the stores honest.

I'm not making excuses for Fender, and I'm not saying the buyer should let it slide. I know that some people don't have major guitar stores right down the street like I do. Just bringing up a few things to think about when buying online.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:49 pm
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I was the first person to open the box after it was shipped from the factory. Basically I got it "straight from the factory". The dealer put a mailing label on the guitar box and sent it over to me without first opening the box.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:19 pm
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That's a bummer. I feel for you. That's a lot of money. Personally though, I'd be feeling pretty good about customer service reaching out to me on a forum of all places. That certainly would put me at ease that the issue will get resolved nicely. Might take some time, but I'm betting your next one will be in good shape.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:16 am
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wferguson wrote:
Because this isn't the first time I have been f'ed over by the American special line, here is the other post to refresh everyone's memories... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67840



You never reported back the results on that thread. Care to share?

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:47 am
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T2Stratman wrote:
Come on Wferguson...Rob is trying to help you out, no company should have to explain about internal QC. Even Ferrari and Rolls Royce has models that are not perfect and they don't make but a couple by hand each year...and their customers don't ask why they didn't catch it after they come on line and try to help you get a whole new product. I understand your frustration, but they are trying to work this for ya! Lighten Up.

T2


Well, allow me to tell you a warranty story about Rolls-Royce.

I had a High-School/College buddy named 'Murray'. Murray was the sole adopted son of 'Bobby' (Roberta) and 'Ray'. Bobby was the sole heir of Plitt Theatres (the largest Movie Theatre co. in the Midwest) and Ray was the Founder of Redkin Hair products. Combined, 'Murray' was the sole heir to a $350M fortune (in 1970's dollars).

Anyway, Ray bought Bobby a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow as a Valentines present. They had homes in Minneapolis, NYC, and Palm Springs, which is where they wintered every year.

When I was home on a 30-day leave from the Navy, Ray called 'Murray' and told him that they wanted the Rolls in Palm Beach for the season. To drive it out, and they'd fly him back.

'Murray' called me and asked that I go with him.

A Rolls, copius amounts of 'consumables', and a Road Trip to boot... of course I said YES !!

We left Minneapolis and three days later were outside Flagstaff, AZ, when the AC quit working (95°F). During the trip, I'd gone through the Owners Manual and found a Roadside Assistance certificate stating that should anything fail, to call this number and a certified RR mechanic would be on-scene w/i 24 hrs. anywhere on the Globe to correct the issue.

'Murray' and I had both been restoring cars since we were 14 and knew the issue was a failed vacuum operated motor in the AC system. The car was equipped with a Radio-Telephone, so we decided on a lark, to place the call.

The RR representative asked our location and asked that we stay with the car. We pulled to the side, grabbed the cooler, popped whatever, and sat on the shade side of the car with a beer and waited.

About 45 min. later, we hear the Whoosh-Whoosh of a helicopter in the distance approaching. From the North came a Bell Jet Ranger which circled us and then landed some 50' away.

Out popped a mechanic wearing spotless coveralls emblazened with a RR crest, carrying two tool boxes. He asked us what the problem was, we told him and added that it was likely just a vacuum motor in the AC system. As he popped the hood, he said: "There's nothing wrong with this car..."

We assured him that it was a great car, but that the AC quit working, probably due to a failed vacuum motor in the AC system.

While he removed an AC vacuum motor, replacing it with a another he brought, he again stated: "There's nothing wrong with this car...".

He packed up his tools, asked us to try it now and voila... the AC was working.

I said: "C'mon, I get it, you're not supposed to admit it, but there was a failed AC part..."

Again he stated: "Sir, There's nothing wrong with this car...", thanked us, returned to the heli which had been idling all this time, and flew off.

The point is, a Rolls is really not any more reliable than any other car, but that is NOT the perception. This guy was so well trained that he would not even admit anything could go wrong with a Rolls, maintaining that perception.

Later in my business career, I held positions as Director, Quality Assurance for Hilton Hotels and Vice President, Quality Assurance for InterContinental Hotels. In training seminars I conducted for each, I recounted that story as an example of the importance of maintaining perceptions.

What this has to do with QA from FMIC, I have no idea.

Except to say that they earned their reputation (perception as it were), and do everything they can to maintain and further that reputation.

In today's business climate, more than ever, it's essential to stand behind your products. I believe Fender goes beyond what many companies do in this regard.

I have personal experience of it.

So, as stated before: "Lighten Up Bro...!! "

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:04 am
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Fender mailed me another strat after I mailed the first one off. The tremolo was fine, but the new one had some finishing flaws, lines going across the body like wood that was painted before being sealed and the paint was absorbed into the wood grain lines. I decided to just enjoy the guitar and accept there was going to be something wrong with all of them and I would rather it be a finishing flaw than an internal one, so I kept that one instead of bringing the issue up.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:16 am
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So this shopper is in the market for chicken, goes over to the meat case, picks up a bird, opens the package and begins plying, and prying, pushing and separating, and then finally sticks a nose into the body cavity, coming back with a wrinkle. The shopper turns to the meat manager, who had been watching this performance right from the get go and exclaims: "Mister!!" "This chicken stinks!!!"
"There's absolutely nothing wrong with that bird!!", he replied. "Could you pass a test like that!?!?!"

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:22 am
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Nathan Brown wrote:
Rob mate, I'd love to get endorsed by Fender, you guys can make a signature model NB Strat, Priced at a little cheaper than the Am. Standard :D

Once you've honed your chops and your public personna to endorsement level quality, that is to say, you've have a following which is likely to guarantee Fender signficant sales of guitars because your sycophants are possessed by an overwhelming need to own the one you play, you can put that question again. Until then...practice, practice, practice. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:12 am
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wferguson wrote:
I purchased a 2013 American Special in Surf Green, the one Strat color I have always wanted. Anyway it comes in the mail today and the first thing I notice is a gap between the neck and the body on the upper horn part. I measured it and it is a .014 gap. It is cold now, and I let it sit in the box and gig bag for two hours before opening it, but should wood shrink that much? I mean 0.14 is a lot. Is this another failed quality control on Fender USA's line? I also just bought and Indonesian Jazzmaster where the neck pocket is super tight and the whole thing resonates, for $130 new. This has a giant gap and cost me $900. The neck gap is as bad as my '65, and this is the age of "CNC precision", so how the hell did this happen? Also, am I crazy or is the upper horn smaller than usual?

Here is the album link since the pics aren't uploading. http://imgur.com/a/vl7uM


Further supporting my observations about the workmanship or lack thereof of the American-made guitars vs. that of Asian countries from a few weeks ago that nobody wanted to hear.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:16 am
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wferguson wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for getting involved. This is a new guitar that I bought from musicpower, which is only a few miles from Corona. Seeing how I live in Virginia and they are in California I kind of wish there was a simpler solution that to send it all the way back to California and pay that shipping and wait another two weeks for them to get the guitar and then send another one. I know people care, but twice on the same guitar line is no accident. And it is a noticeable gap, what about the pickup tester, the stringer, finish inspector, and finally the person who sets it all up and checks for issues? How has it passed through that many people and they just let it slide?


Because it was made in the USA. The Chinese-made guitars, on the other hand, have flawless workmanship, because they work hard there. Those guitars unfortunately start with inferior materials, but they are flawlessly made with what the workers are given.


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:16 pm
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(i thought i had posted.......but it disappeared.....what the.....? ok now i gotta remember what i said.. :cry: )


Ok, so I think that we are on our way to resolving the OP's dissatisfaction.

So now, let me clarify a little since I'm now in the office and have the spec's and info readily available to me.

The specs for the neck slot fit are 016" on either side and not more that .025 total.
This means that by the book.....014 is within spec.
I also want to mention that I am not a big fan of close-up (actually blown up over 100%) of guitars to show "defects", and certainly not without a comparative picture at an arm's length to show the actual reality for the guitar in total.

In other words, the viewpoint seen from alot of pictures I see, is much more pronounced and evident then someone would see in real life.

"So rob", you might well arsk, "if the guitar is within acceptable tolerance, why are you replacing it with a new guitar?"

Fair question.

Simply put, as I've pointed out in this thread and posted several other times in various forums....the Limited Lifetime Warranty clearly states what we are responsible for, and all of us here are well acquainted with it.

More important to us, is to make sure that we do the right thing per situation, all things considered.
I believe that we're on our way to doing that in this case, and hopefully wferguson agrees with that.


@Herwanna--opinions and observations are just that. We produce guitars in several countries and there are varying opinions & observations on the quality and playability of all of them........ even within our own company. I can only tell you that I have seen many great guitars from every country we produce them in......but I've also seen a few fails.

Cheers to all,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:23 pm
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
I also want to mention that I am not a big fan of close-up (actually blown up over 100%) of guitars to show "defects", and certainly not without a comparative picture at an arm's length to show the actual reality for the guitar in total.
In other words, the viewpoint seen from alot of pictures I see, is much more pronounced and evident then someone would see in real life.rob

Hence the point of my little tale. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:44 pm
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And the moral of the story is........
If you are that picky about your gear, why shop mail order. I have never, ever purchased an instrument from ANY manufacturer without playing it in person. I don't care about getting a guitar fifty bucks cheaper from whoever because if you have to ship it back, that money's gone anyway.
Fender is making it up in spades. If they lacked in perceived quality, they're making it up in customer service. Replacing a guitar that's in spec is pretty damn nice in my book. I wouldn't buy a guitar with a neck pocket like that period. I use a business card a a gauge.
Very few guitars come through with "flawless" workmanship because we all have our own ideas of what "flawless" is. The stuff coming out of China is cheaper not just because of cheap labor. Some of it is cheaper components too. All in all, you get what you pay for eventually. I've seen some decent stuff come out of China as well as total garbage from the same model and same manufacturer.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:16 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Further supporting my observations about the workmanship or lack thereof of the American-made guitars vs. that of Asian countries from a few weeks ago that nobody wanted to hear.


It's not that simple.
Yes, Far East factories do replication work extremely well, as long as your requirements are detailed enough. But there's seldom much pride in the product, only pride in fulfilling the obligations.
I believe that in Western countries like the US and Mexico, you will have more variations because of the human factor. But that's not only bad. In addition to more faults, you will also have more products that exceed the specs instead of just meeting them.

If I were to rank guitars from 0-100, Korean made would be 80 +- 5 and US would be 80 +- 10.
On average, they would be just as good, and the Korean ones are by far more consistent.
But the variation ensures not only that there will be more duds, but some really good ones too. And good QA processes will help weeding out the lower quality ones so they don't reach the consumer, but go on the production loss quota instead. That makes the products more expensive.
But to get really good instruments, there must be a human factor, or there won't ever be any excellence.


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