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Post subject: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:32 pm
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I purchased a 2013 American Special in Surf Green, the one Strat color I have always wanted. Anyway it comes in the mail today and the first thing I notice is a gap between the neck and the body on the upper horn part. I measured it and it is a .014 gap. It is cold now, and I let it sit in the box and gig bag for two hours before opening it, but should wood shrink that much? I mean 0.14 is a lot. Is this another failed quality control on Fender USA's line? I also just bought and Indonesian Jazzmaster where the neck pocket is super tight and the whole thing resonates, for $130 new. This has a giant gap and cost me $900. The neck gap is as bad as my '65, and this is the age of "CNC precision", so how the hell did this happen? Also, am I crazy or is the upper horn smaller than usual?

Here is the album link since the pics aren't uploading. http://imgur.com/a/vl7uM

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:46 pm
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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:47 pm
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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:19 pm
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Well that is a noticeable gap and if it was my guitar then I'd want a replacement.

Not sure why you say that Fender QC has failed again though. "Again" suggests you've had a QC problem before.

Wood is prone to movement, swelling, shrinkage, moisture absorption and a myriad other problems that can affect tolerances before and after manufacture and quality control. Might be best to speak to the retailer about the problem and see if they'll do anything to rectify it with a replacement. Other than that I don't really know how to advise you.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:24 pm
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Because this isn't the first time I have been f'ed over by the American special line, here is the other post to refresh everyone's memories... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67840

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:37 pm
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+ Sorry wrong thread.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:48 pm
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An .014" gap is pretty significant.

I'd send the guitar back.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:56 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
An .014" gap is pretty significant.

I'd send the guitar back.

Arjay


+1000

That's just wrong.

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:06 pm
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Hiya wferguson
Ok....took awhile but I did read the 3 page previous post... so let me start by saying that I AM sorry about out that, and sorry you're having troubles again. I don't know what happened last time, I don't remember being involved, but doesn't sound great to me from seeing this side of the story.
I'll start by agreeing with Gilgafrank. Is it a New guitar? If so, it would be really unusual that they don't have a return policy on new gear. If it's used, it's a different story, and we would start off with there not being a warranty at all. We don't warranty used guitars for some fairly obvious reasons.
At any rate, I'm going to figure it's new.
So let's address the problem.
Talk to the dealer to return it and get a replacement.
If that doesn't work call Consumer Relations at (480) 596-7195 or email at consumerrelations@fender.com or just PM me the details. Serial- store- receipt info etc.

Now addressing your trouble last time....although obviously too late at this point.....
but I WILL say that I (and we-my managers) DO keep track of Hold times and "abandon" rates and all those wonderful Metrics. Consumer relations DOES get pretty busy.....and last year was a bear (again, my apologies), but we in fact DO stand behind our products and if it ain't right we'll take care of it.
Now......to be honest, we may not take care of it the way YOU think we should.....I'm speaking about sending you a body. We won't do that. Fender Authorized Service Centers are there for that. They are certified for that work or they are not Service Centers. Not that you couldn't handle swapping a body........but how do I know that?
So, not trying to insult or play it off or anything like that......let's just say I don't believe a car company will warranty you replacing the parts, nor Dell letting you change out hard drives under warranty. Our policies are pretty clearly stated online in the Support section.
So Normally, we will work through an Authorized Service Center or an Authorized Dealer depending on the circumstance and what needs to happen.
I won't detail what we pay our Service Centers, but I will say that though we did slip down to about the middle of the Musical Instrument field in terms of reimbursement, we are now again towards the top, and to the best of my knowledge, we are not having problems hanging on to Service Centers.
As far as quality goes, I'd love to say that we make it perfect every time, but the truth is that CNC's or not, there is still plenty that is done by hand, and is prone to human error. Obviously, we work to keep that to an absolute minimum, and from what I can see through all my reports and such, our quality problems are actually ridiculously small percentage wise. Again, that doesn't make much difference to the person affected, and can't stop everyone at Fender from continuing to try and get it right all the time.
Anyway wferguson, sorry for my blah blah blah......take it for what it's worth to ya, but I've been here a little while, and can tell you that most everyone I work with here CARES. Those that don't , don't last that long.
Ok, so ya got my name, feel free to use it. I am sorry you're having a rough time.....let's see if we can get it corrected.
All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:20 pm
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Subscribed! :D


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:26 pm
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Rob,
Thanks for getting involved. This is a new guitar that I bought from musicpower, which is only a few miles from Corona. Seeing how I live in Virginia and they are in California I kind of wish there was a simpler solution that to send it all the way back to California and pay that shipping and wait another two weeks for them to get the guitar and then send another one. I know people care, but twice on the same guitar line is no accident. And it is a noticeable gap, what about the pickup tester, the stringer, finish inspector, and finally the person who sets it all up and checks for issues? How has it passed through that many people and they just let it slide?

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:28 pm
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wferguson wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for getting involved. This is a new guitar that I bought from musicpower, which is only a few miles from Corona. Seeing how I live in Virginia and they are in California I kind of wish there was a simpler solution that to send it all the way back to California and pay that shipping and wait another two weeks for them to get the guitar and then send another one. I know people care, but twice on the same guitar line is no accident. And it is a noticeable gap, what about the pickup tester, the stringer, finish inspector, and finally the person who sets it all up and checks for issues? How has it passed through that many people and they just let it slide?


Hi again wferguson,
Like I said, PM me with the details, and let's see what we can work out on a solution that works. Like I also said....our warranty responsibilities are posted online and that is what you can absolutely count on and that is what we are responsible to do. In the end, it's important to do the RIGHT thing, Don't ya think? I do. So we'll try to come up with the best answer.
As far as the quality questions, slippage etc., in all honesty, I haven't worked on the final guitar line in many years and so I can't speak to that with absolute confidence or assurance......and add to that the human factor....and add to that ....well just think about how many guitars are out in the world for a minute. I can only tell you that if you ever get the chance to go through the visitor center tour, it still staggers me to see all those guitars....then multiply them per day, then multiply again for 60 years......I can't fathom.....and I work here. So......pick a number of how many guitars (it IS production after all) that come out of Corona and Ensenada etc etc...every single day.....and figure what you would find acceptable fall out...as a business I mean, and I pretty much guarantee that your number would be over reality.
But again....if you're the guy that got that one that got away......your question is warranted (no pun intended....but it fits). I don't know where you work......but do they get it perfect every time? Like I also said....ya try harder, you say awww dammit!!! and try not to mess that up again.......and that's just the human part.......wood and metal and environment and age......lovely!!!
So I'm not making excuses.......I agree with you. But think about it.....Why does my job exist? Why does Customer Service exist? Getting deep here huh? So my goal is somewhat to put myself out of a job and make sure everything from start to finish is absolutely flawless. Then I'll just hang out on all the forums and just say, " You got that Strat? Pretty cool huh? Awesome!! Talk to ya later!"
Nice goal........I'm thinking that odds are ....probably won't happen though.
ANYWAYS................jeeez caught me on a talkative night! Private Message me and we'll get down to the details, ok? cool!
Talk with ya soon! Now I gotta go make snarky remarks on my friends Facebook walls and play video games lol..
Regards,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:31 pm
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wferguson wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for getting involved. This is a new guitar that I bought from musicpower, which is only a few miles from Corona. Seeing how I live in Virginia and they are in California I kind of wish there was a simpler solution that to send it all the way back to California and pay that shipping and wait another two weeks for them to get the guitar and then send another one. I know people care, but twice on the same guitar line is no accident. And it is a noticeable gap, what about the pickup tester, the stringer, finish inspector, and finally the person who sets it all up and checks for issues? How has it passed through that many people and they just let it slide?


Come on Wferguson...Rob is trying to help you out, no company should have to explain about internal QC. Even Ferrari and Rolls Royce has models that are not perfect and they don't make but a couple by hand each year...and their customers don't ask why they didn't catch it after they come on line and try to help you get a whole new product. I understand your frustration, but they are trying to work this for ya! Lighten Up.

T2

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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:50 pm
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
If it's used, it's a different story, and we would start off with there not being a warranty at all. We don't warranty used guitars for some fairly obvious reasons.

That depends on the country of original sale. In Europe, at least, the warranty follows the product, and is not voided by being resold. If you buy a used guitar that was new a year ago, you have at least one year's warranty and four years of redress rights left.
In the US, it's caveat emptor, of course.

Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
So, not trying to insult or play it off or anything like that......let's just say I don't believe a car company will warranty you replacing the parts, nor Dell letting you change out hard drives under warranty.

I can't speak for car companies, but Dell was a bad example. Dell does indeed RMA parts under warranty, including hard drives. It does depend on the nature of the product; you're expected to be able to replace drives in a server, and given the option to do it for workstations. In most of their tower systems, you don't even need a screwdriver. Call them with the service tag, get a cardboard box with a shipping label shipped, send the bad drive to them, and get a new one back.

If Dell had made guitars, there would be screwless brackets for switching pickups. And yes, they'd rattle, and die two days after the warranty expired. :-D

Anyhow, replacement of the guitar at the dealer's expense seems in order. wfergie bought a new guitar, presumably flawless, and that's what he should get, with no extra expenses on his side. The dealer should sort this out. That you step in and help here is going above and beyond duty!


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Post subject: Re: Fender quality control, failed again?
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:14 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
If it's used, it's a different story, and we would start off with there not being a warranty at all. We don't warranty used guitars for some fairly obvious reasons.

That depends on the country of original sale. In Europe, at least, the warranty follows the product, and is not voided by being resold. If you buy a used guitar that was new a year ago, you have at least one year's warranty and four years of redress rights left.
In the US, it's caveat emptor, of course.

Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
So, not trying to insult or play it off or anything like that......let's just say I don't believe a car company will warranty you replacing the parts, nor Dell letting you change out hard drives under warranty.

I can't speak for car companies, but Dell was a bad example. Dell does indeed RMA parts under warranty, including hard drives. It does depend on the nature of the product; you're expected to be able to replace drives in a server, and given the option to do it for workstations. In most of their tower systems, you don't even need a screwdriver. Call them with the service tag, get a cardboard box with a shipping label shipped, send the bad drive to them, and get a new one back.

If Dell had made guitars, there would be screwless brackets for switching pickups. And yes, they'd rattle, and die two days after the warranty expired. :-D

Anyhow, replacement of the guitar at the dealer's expense seems in order. wfergie bought a new guitar, presumably flawless, and that's what he should get, with no extra expenses on his side. The dealer should sort this out. That you step in and help here is going above and beyond duty!

Aww arth1!!! yeh ya got me....bad example on the Dell.......but don't get caught in the details of the analogy......ok let's just talk about guitars. I know as a person that there are some very qualified folks on this forum.......but unless they take our test to be an authorized Service center.....there's a fair amount of work that we don't cover if people mess with.....too easy to pull the paint off at the neck slot....too easy to drop the screw driver......too easy for the driver to slip out of the slotted screw on a 52 Tele and scratch the finish....

Also correct on the warranty....which again, online clearly states it is USA and Canada only. Worldwide it is different in pretty much in every country. (Yer killin me here ha haa!)
Point is......regardless, our desire is to do the right thing. Within reason, we'll do whatever we can to make things right.
(whew...glad I had a point!)
regards,
rob

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