It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:21 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:34 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:30 am
Posts: 505
Location: Southern IL
So I've been writing a lot of songs over the past year, and I'd like to post them online and hand out some CD's, but I'm worried about someone stealing my music. After all the emotion I pour into my songs, and the effort and concentration it takes to write them, it would tear me up if someone simply took them and claimed them as their own. I looked into how to get a copyright, and it seems pretty simple. However, I've heard that a copyright will only protect to a certain extent. What else could I do to protect my music?

I've been to several websites, but none that explain exactly what I'd need to do. I trust there are a few people here that are knowledgeable about this kind of thing, and any advice would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

I'll give my thanks in advance as I may not be on the forum for a bit.

-Jake :P

_________________
"I don't care how good you are, how fast you are. You ain't good enough no lessin' you got the soul." -Hubert Sumlin


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:57 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
Everything is copyrighted automatically if ever performed in public or sold without a contract.
You haven't had to register copyrights since 1975 or so. That's not the problem.

However, there are laws giving compulsory licensing rights, meaning a performer can play your song without you having any say in it. Then a copyright collective collects money from that artist's venue, and pays it out to its members, after a formula that ensures that only the top artists get paid, and non-members get nothing. To have even an inkling of hope to get something back, you have to join such an organization (like ASCAP). But chances are you'll get less back than your membership fees.

The alternatives are (a) to sell your copyrights to someone who then gets all the profits/expenses. You lose all control, of course, or (b) to never ever perform the work for the public, but only to people who sign contracts. Then copyrights do not apply, contract laws do. That is unfeasible for most.

So you may look into joining an organization like ASCAP or SGA, even though they don't really work for you - they work for money.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:29 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am
Posts: 4099
Location: New York
time to consult with an Entertainment Attorney :idea:

_________________
Please subscribe to my Image Channel!
https://www.youtube.com/user/b7567


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 666
Location: Nashville TN
I've worried a bit about the same thing, but then remembered that I suck and no one wants to claim anything I've done. :lol: but seriously, not sure how much it helps but I'd make it a point to always include something along the lines of "content is the creation of --- and shall not be used without written consent from ME" yeah...at least then there's some sort of paper trail.

_________________
~Dan


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:28 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:02 pm
Posts: 1978
Location: Manchester
The one sentence definition is "copyright exists in any original idea converted to a permanent form". So if you have an original idea and make a recording of it then you own the copyright.

The problem people have is in enforcing that ownership. If you're that worried about people stealing your music then don't play it to anyone.

_________________
Image
Image my stuff on soundcloud


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:59 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:46 pm
Posts: 2041
I've been performing original songs since I got out of the Army in 1971, heck, I guess I even recorded a couple originals in my dad's studio back in the 60s. I have actually had other bands perform my songs when I was playing out every weekend in the 90s in Minnesota, but they didn't even know they were my songs, they thought I was just covering someone else's tune.

To my knowledge, no one ever released any of my songs as their own. Surely I'd have heard them on the radio..? :shock:

_________________
Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:03 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19026
Location: Illinois, USA
Jake, take a look at the "your poetry" thread when you have a moment, I've re-posted someting that expresses my feelings about art and whether it should be shared or not. Sometimes if you wait for a publishing deal it could be a very long wait. When I think of sharing art it is easy to think of Howard Finster an American folk artist and minister who's mission it would seem was to get his art out and into the eyes of the people.

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:17 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:03 am
Posts: 575
Location: In the Land of "Stratocaster"
Not up on all the so called "copyright laws" for songs but, there are a few things you can do to protect original works.
You can burn a CD of your songs... mail it to yourself... do not open it. Put it in a safe place unopened. The Post Mark will predate anyone elses recorded attempts at taking your song(s) away from you.
Another thing that comes to mind... there's a date affixed to digital media. If you have been recording/duplicating your original music/songs on a digital platform... there is a date (date you performed the recording... dupe etc...) in the "Digital Signature". This too will "Pre-Date" an attempt by someone else who records... and perhaps sells etc... your song(s). Make sure you store those files in a safe place on your computer.

Maybe so that you do not "need" to register a copyright since 1975 however, you still can if you wanted to. Send off a CD of your songs to the copyright office. Why not. What have you got to lose if you do that? Better than nothing, right?
ASCAP, SGA etc... From what I'm aware you need to be associated (be a member) with those types of organizations to sell music online (CD Baby blah, blah...).
May as well join one of them. Again, it doesnt hurt and... Why not be the one who benefits from the "Sale" of your music. This along with the above.. should suffice in a legal dispute if ever you had to go that route. Can't see how doing any of these goes against you if you needed to prove that a song(s) are indeed... yours.

_________________
★ ★ ★ ★ ★


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:11 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:30 am
Posts: 505
Location: Southern IL
Lots of great advice guys. I suppose posting some songs here on the forum without a copyright couldn't hurt. I would trust anyone here to not steal anything (can't speak for the lurkers) so you can expect some music from me somewhat soon. I've been playing some open mics without worrying about it. There's still a risk, but I guess that just comes with the territory.

SBLS, I completely agree with sharing art (sorry, haven't looked at the post yet), and ultimately the main reason for me playing/writing music is for others to hear it. I want to give my opinion. I don't care about selling my music or getting a publishing deal. When I finish the "album" I'm working on, I'm just going to hand CDs out to people/post it online.

I want to get a copyright in time, but I'm not in any hurry. Could anyone tell me about how much the fees for an organization like ASCAP would be? That will also have to wait but it would be good to know. Also, I heard that the "poor man's copyright" (mailing a CD to yourself) no longer works, but I can't be certain. It's good to know that a digital signature provides some protection.

Thanks again forum, I appreciate the input.

-Jake :P

_________________
"I don't care how good you are, how fast you are. You ain't good enough no lessin' you got the soul." -Hubert Sumlin


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:23 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:49 pm
Posts: 409
All very helpful comments indeed but protecting one's own music should be last on the priority list, in my humble opinion of course. The question that persists is: Are your so-called songs really songs at all? I mean let's not put the cart before the horse! A lot of people post videos of their original playing and a lot of people quite simply aren't playing an actual song per se. :idea:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:01 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
j_rockr91 wrote:
I suppose posting some songs here on the forum without a copyright couldn't hurt.

Hi Jake: to repeat what's already been said, you already own the copyright in your own material. You don't have to do anything: your ownership (copyright) is automatic.

See arth1's post above, which covers most of it.

With copyright the real problems are proving that someone has stolen your material, rather than composed it themselves. This is seldom an issue if they just cover a song "as is": that's an open-and shut-case and won't even get to court. If someone records your song then the previously mentioned organisations are there to collect the appropriate fee on your behalf and pass it on to you (minus their charges, natch).

The real-life difficulties with music copyright theft are that what people steal is an idea - not a whole song, but a riff or a chord structure or whatever. These are the cases that can be amazingly hard to prove and which use up masses of court time and lawyers' fees.

For example, when is a number just a generic I-IV-V blues progression and when is it an identifiable song by a named artist? Mountains of money are won and lost over that sort of thing.

As well as demonstrating that a series of notes is a discreet musical idea, a basic issue is showing that you had that idea before someone else, whom you are claiming stole it from you. Established artists have deals with publishing companies to take care of that side of things. As far as the little guy is concerned, in the past folks used to get up to doubtful practices such as mailing copies of their tracks to themselves so the dated postmark would "prove" when they composed the music. I wonder if that ever held up in a legal dispute?

Nowadays things are easier in this respect, because posting your track on YouTube or one of the many music hosting websites establishes when you created the music, so that if push comes to shove you can show that you composed the number before the guy who stole it from you.

Ultimately, posting your music on a website is a form of publishing, with all the legal rights, protections and risks that implies. If you are too worried about someone taking your work without paying you, don't publish it.

But then... what's music for?

Good luck - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:08 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
"It's great for intellectual property lawyers now that it's stunningly easy to violate copyright law."

My BMI colleague said this. :wink:

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:08 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:30 am
Posts: 505
Location: Southern IL
Thanks Ceri, that clears some things up. I haven't posted anything online because I was unsure of how the whole copyright thing worked, but this thread has certainly put my mind at ease. I really can't thank everyone enough.

JimRussellMills30! wrote:
The question that persists is: Are your so-called songs really songs at all? I mean let's not put the cart before the horse!


:lol: Well, maybe they aren't "song" material, but I'll let you all have a listen when I get around to making some good recordings. Then I'll let you decide :D

-Jake :P

_________________
"I don't care how good you are, how fast you are. You ain't good enough no lessin' you got the soul." -Hubert Sumlin


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Before you decide not to formally copyright original compositions ask yourself one question. If copyrighting music is unnecessary, then why is all recorded music on every major label formally copyrighted before the recording is released? It is because the writer copyrighted it formally for his protection.

While in the USA since the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976 intellectual property such as a musical composition is the property of the creator upon creation, it is very hard to prove in court who created something and when. The typical "Poor Man's Copyright" mentioned of mailing it to yourself is considered inadmissible evidence in most courts as it is possible to mail unsealed envelopes to yourself, then fill the envelopes and seal them later. Judges will not consider them. Courts have been known however to accept a notarized paper copy of the original composition as evidence of the date of creation and identity of the creator. Still even a notarized paper copy does not afford the same benefits under U.S. law of a formally registered copyright.

In the USA formally copyrighting music has very tangible benefits:
1. It establishes a publicly verifiable record of the copyright claim which is valid for the creator's lifetime plus 70 years.
2. Before an infringement suit can even be filed in court, copyright registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin. In other words if it isn't formally registered then you can not sue for infringement. Filing for a formal copyright is required if you want to sue over infringement. Post-copyrighting is like closing the gate after the cows are out.
3. When made before or within five years of publication, copyright registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate of copyright. You win.
4. If copyright registration is made within three months after publication of the work AND prior to any infringement of the work, STATUTORY damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of ACTUAL damages and profits is available to the copyright owner. Right here is possibly the most important reason to formally copyright any song you plan to record or perform publicly. You win bigger.
5. Copyright registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the unlawful importing or exporting of the property.
6. When BUYING your song outright, a buyer wants it to be formally copyrighted, otherwise they have no assurance they can get a formal copyright for it. In other words if writing a song with the intent of possibly selling it, in order to sell it the buyer will want it to be copyrighted first.

To copyright a work in the United States you can either do it by mail or online.
Online is much more cost efficient being about half as expensive as the mail method. Online is $35 for an album of up to 11 songs. The USA copyright portal online is: http://www.copyright.gov/


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Protecting My Music?
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:47 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19026
Location: Illinois, USA
Jake, looking through old papers for the annual shred day for our town I stumbled accross the 50 or so pages from the United States Copyright Office May-29-1999. You may wonder "what was SBLS copyrighting in 1999?" (accronym, where has JSJH been?) Well, I was about to copyright a cable television show. When I approached the company that I worked for at the time they chuckled and said "it is copyrighted by us but if you want to continue working on it we will look at this again". Live and learn, not saying what I posted before shouldn't be, just it was a different time I was younger and if I didn't feel well (cold, flu, akey, whatever) I could be argumentative.

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: