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Post subject: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my Strat?
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:06 pm
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I have a 2000 Fender USA Strat Deluxe with a Superchamp XD. I want to get a tone like the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Jh1BV1E
or even like Cliffs of Dover, or anything from Malmsteen

Any good ideas on how I can get that kind of (comparable) tone? I'm happy with the Superchamp but I feel it's just not enough. Let's say I have $1000 budget.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:10 pm
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fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:04 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies


Unless he wants to sound like early Yngwie - in which case he probably has to first overdrive/distort the signal, and then run a noise suppressor on the result. I don't think a Mustang lets him do that, and he'd need stomp boxes anyhow?

Later Yngwie has (to my ears) far less effects - some reverb, but it's mostly his playing, on nearly clean settings.

Anyhow, in my humble opinion, the best way to get smooth solo sustain is having a good pickup put in. :)


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:35 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies

That's funny I could just see Eric Johnson playing a mustang 4 (Not). Maybe look at a Marshall.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:56 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies

That's funny I could just see Eric Johnson playing a mustang 4 (Not). Maybe look at a Marshall.


I agree with you, but this dude does alright with a mustang I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FIEq5f5U8NA& ... IEq5f5U8NA

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:04 pm
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captainc wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies

That's funny I could just see Eric Johnson playing a mustang 4 (Not). Maybe look at a Marshall.


I agree with you, but this dude does alright with a mustang I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FIEq5f5U8NA& ... IEq5f5U8NA

Not bad not EJ but not bad.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:40 pm
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captainc wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
Maybe look at a Marshall.


I agree with you, but this dude does alright with a mustang I


If you're good, it's not the amp that makes the player. One of the best guitar players I've heard sat busking on the street with a battery run Roland and a cheap Epiphone, fingers dancing, playing old Robby Krieger songs with ease and flair, and turning out sounds I could have sworn that amplet could never produce.
And most people didn't even realize that they were gifted with a Performance.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:32 am
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Quote:
Anyhow, in my humble opinion, the best way to get smooth solo sustain is having a good pickup put in. :)


What kind of pick-up would you suggest? I'm not much of a hardware guy and I always thought the Fender Deluxe Strat's had respectable pick-up's in them


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 am
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tbazzone wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
fender mustang 4 and you'll still have $600 left over to buy other goodies

That's funny I could just see Eric Johnson playing a mustang 4 (Not). Maybe look at a Marshall.


LOL. It's no skin off my back and I'm not trying to argue with you, but I wish I could play so I could show you. For your own fun--just to add an experience to your life--you should pick up a Mustang 4 (not a 3 or 2 -- a 4). Now, be fair, just as with a "real amp," the speakers need to be broken in. So you'll need to plop down $425 (real street price) to buy it and then break the speakers in. The thing sings, man. My playing holds back the amp, not the other way around.

Malmsteen (not that I'm a fan of his music all that much) or Clapton or Mayer or any of you real players can make the M4 *sing*, I'm telling you man.

I actually got in trouble with the neighbors last night because I just had to hear it a little bit. From shimmering cleans to.....forget about ridiculous loud NIrvana, which it can do...just a little bit of overdrive pedal, level and gain on 5 or 6, not over the top.....freaking souring sound dude with low end that can shake the room if you want that, but not muddy.

I can't even demo it for you because all I can do is play some cowboy chords and fake soloing.

I'm surprise someone (you?) approved of that M1 video someone posted. That actually sounds like garbage and I'm a mustang fan as you know. That sounds like watery over-echoed garbage IMO.

The Mustang 4 without the effects overdone....you might be shocked at the sound you can get out of it.

I wish I could show you but I can't play well enough to show you what the amp can do. It is super duper touch responsive, from perfect cleans to just a little gain with tons of sustain, like you classic rockers like.....of course it can roar too. I actually think the mustang 4 amp would not be holding anyone back other than a super pro like a Malmsteen or a Mayer, actually. If John Mayer sat in my living room with my M4 and played a nice clean but saturated tone...it would sing.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:00 am
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CanadianAlbanian wrote:
Quote:
Anyhow, in my humble opinion, the best way to get smooth solo sustain is having a good pickup put in. :)


What kind of pick-up would you suggest? I'm not much of a hardware guy and I always thought the Fender Deluxe Strat's had respectable pick-up's in them


They do, but there are tradeoffs between tone, hotness and sustain. In general, the closer the pickups are to the string, and the stronger the magnets are, the worse sustain you will get, but louder sound and more nuances.

There are many pickups out there that have high sustain, including some DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan ones. I have nothing bad to say about either.

The cheapest way to increase sustain is by upping the gain on the amp, of course. But that tends to only increase the base tone, not harmonics, and does not work as well for high notes as for bass.
Second cheapest is probably to change strings. Thicker strings give more sustain.
You can also increase sustain by going to fewer pickups, or a guitar with a longer scale length (longer strings ring longer), or a non-tremolo bridge.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:52 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
yadda yadda yadda

I'm surprise someone (you?) approved of that M1 video someone posted. That actually sounds like garbage and I'm a mustang fan as you know. That sounds like watery over-echoed garbage IMO.

The Mustang 4 without the effects overdone....you might be shocked at the sound you can get out of it.


HW,

The OP mentions in his first post that he is looking for something in the likes of ‘Cliffs Of Dover’ a song by Eric Johnson. While granted, Eric Johnson is no Kurt Cobain, he is considered by many to be a harbinger of great tone and skill. The purpose of the Youtube video was to demonstrate an example of an EJ fan who was able to achieve pretty convincing EJ tones on a very modest setup. Judging by the title of the thread mentioning “smooth solo sustain”, I’d be willing to bet the OP is referring to the “Violin Tone” also sought after by lots of fellow guitar enthusiasts. The beginning of the video yes does demo EJ’s multi tap echo style which might not be for everyone, (worked out pretty good for EJ though) but did you watch through the end of the video where the poster shows off a really well done “Violin Tone” ala Eric Johnson with a Bad Monkey, a Fulltone 70 and a Mustang I? OP’s budget is a 1,000 dollars, so by no means am I suggesting a Mustang I for his needs, in fact, If my budget were that much, I’d probably shy away from the mustang series because truth be told, the front end limiter on a Mustang that “protects” the A/D section can be a downer if you want to use external pedals. Yes I know… if you have a mustang “you don’t need pedals” but some folks like to choose their own pedals and stack them and there isn’t a front end limiter on a Tube or even a standard SS amp. For someone who is so often shouting from the top of Mustang Mountain that the Mustang line of amps have revolutionized the world of guitar playing, I’m actually surprised you are so forthcoming to call a very smooth sounding Violin tone from a very small Mustang based rig “garbage”, especially when one of the “tube guys” you always seem to be trying to convert concurred it wasn’t a bad example of an EJ style tone on the cheap.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:12 pm
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captainc wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
yadda yadda yadda

I'm surprise someone (you?) approved of that M1 video someone posted. That actually sounds like garbage and I'm a mustang fan as you know. That sounds like watery over-echoed garbage IMO.

The Mustang 4 without the effects overdone....you might be shocked at the sound you can get out of it.


HW,

The OP mentions in his first post that he is looking for something in the likes of ‘Cliffs Of Dover’ a song by Eric Johnson. While granted, Eric Johnson is no Kurt Cobain, he is considered by many to be a harbinger of great tone and skill. The purpose of the Youtube video was to demonstrate an example of an EJ fan who was able to achieve pretty convincing EJ tones on a very modest setup. Judging by the title of the thread mentioning “smooth solo sustain”, I’d be willing to bet the OP is referring to the “Violin Tone” also sought after by lots of fellow guitar enthusiasts. The beginning of the video yes does demo EJ’s multi tap echo style which might not be for everyone, (worked out pretty good for EJ though) but did you watch through the end of the video where the poster shows off a really well done “Violin Tone” ala Eric Johnson with a Bad Monkey, a Fulltone 70 and a Mustang I? OP’s budget is a 1,000 dollars, so by no means am I suggesting a Mustang I for his needs, in fact, If my budget were that much, I’d probably shy away from the mustang series because truth be told, the front end limiter on a Mustang that “protects” the A/D section can be a downer if you want to use external pedals. Yes I know… if you have a mustang “you don’t need pedals” but some folks like to choose their own pedals and stack them and there isn’t a front end limiter on a Tube or even a standard SS amp. For someone who is so often shouting from the top of Mustang Mountain that the Mustang line of amps have revolutionized the world of guitar playing, I’m actually surprised you are so forthcoming to call a very smooth sounding Violin tone from a very small Mustang based rig “garbage”, especially when one of the “tube guys” you always seem to be trying to convert concurred it wasn’t a bad example of an EJ style tone on the cheap.


ya sorry I was a bit cranky there. my only point is that indeed speakers do matter and M1 is not comparable to M3 or M4 (I own M1 too--have it at my parents' house in case I'm there so I can practice without bringing my amp there) due to closed back tiny little 8 inch speaker and indeed IMO in that vid the tone is not that great, IMO, not that I hate on it, actually, but I fear it gives ammunition to those who are itching to bag on all solid state amps, if you follow me....

and yeah...one of your points is my point, if I may say so...looking at the OP, the OP said he has $1,000. the M1 is a $99 (now $109 supposedly) amp......

I get your point that "even that" does pretty well...

I'm actually serious that the $425 M4 2X12 celestians can do the job he wants to do, IMO, even on a stage.


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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:13 pm
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Welcome to the forum Canadian Albanian-there's always room for another Fender loving Canuck.You don't necessarily need a new amp to give you clean sustain,there are some excellent pedals that are quite capable of boosting your sustain without muddying up your signal. The Fulltone OCD overdrive is an excellent pedal for this type of clean sustain as is the Swollen Pickle Green Rhino.Both of these pedals can really make a big difference on your sustain and give you a warm almost violin like sustain once you get a hang for the controls.Another pedal that I recently have found,although not a sustain as such is the BBE Sonic Stomp Sonic Enhancer.What this pedal does to a guitar's signal is no less than amazing,I'm not given to exaggeration of hyperbole but this pedal is incredible.When I tried it out in the store I had a Strat going into a Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and I set it up like the salesman said to get the best possible tone that I could get.While I was playing a few blues riffs he hit the engage button on the pedal and the result was astounding,the pedal put more depth and fullness into the signal than I ever thought possible.With this pedal engaged the signal becomes so full that the notes actually sustain much longer than usual.

Any of these pedals would be worth trying out before spending hundreds for a new amp.Cheers.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:14 am
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Best way to get close to a particular guitar players sound is to scope their gear (which amps do they use, effects pedals and how they connect the pedal chain). The other side of the coin to getting their "Sound" is to learn "HOW" they play (technique etc...) and work towards incorporating what you can into your playing. The easy part is to acquire the gear... the part that takes work is attaining the technique to play like they do (or close to enough to it).
Couple thing to consider in your amp purchase.
Do you plan on using the amp for Gigging or is it just for home/practice use? If only for the living room a small low wattage (5-15 watt) combo amp will get you there. Want to play out with it (Bars, Clubs or even just casual BBQ/Party type Jam Sessions) you need some wattage behind you.
If a Tube amp... at least 30 Watts to 100 Watts. Smaller wattage (30 watt) tube amps can be driven harder to get that nice, warm and sustaining saturation at lower overall volume. 50 to 100 watt tube amps need to be pushed as well... but those are seriously LOUD when you go there and are guaranteed to singe the hair off the head of anyone within 50 paces of it. especially those directly in front of it.
Anything from a Fender Princeton, Twin, Deluxe Reverb, Mustang III and up, Peavey Classic, Mesa rectifier, Marshall JCM going thru any combination of a '12 speaker cab (1x12, 2x12, 4x12) will suffice to give you the type of tone you're looking for.
Go out to GC... spend a few hours trying diff amps... go with something that "Feels" right for you.
A note about modeling amps like the Fender Mustangs:
these offer the most "Versatility" you can get out a single amplifier. Do you want to be able to dial in convincing tones from other guitar players (Stevie Ray, Clapton, Page, Iommi, Beck, Morse, Bonamassa, Gallagher, Chubby, Freddy King, Buddy Guy etc...) you may want to go with a good modeler like a Mustang. You won't get the same versatility out of a JCM 800, Twin or Rectifier... they do what they do extremely well... but they don't offer the variety of tones you can get with good modelling amps like the Mustang line.

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Post subject: Re: Good amp to get that smooth solo sustain tone from my St
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:45 am
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guitslinger wrote:
Welcome to the forum Canadian Albanian-there's always room for another Fender loving Canuck.You don't necessarily need a new amp to give you clean sustain,there are some excellent pedals that are quite capable of boosting your sustain without muddying up your signal. The Fulltone OCD overdrive is an excellent pedal for this type of clean sustain as is the Swollen Pickle Green Rhino.Both of these pedals can really make a big difference on your sustain and give you a warm almost violin like sustain once you get a hang for the controls.Another pedal that I recently have found,although not a sustain as such is the BBE Sonic Stomp Sonic Enhancer.What this pedal does to a guitar's signal is no less than amazing,I'm not given to exaggeration of hyperbole but this pedal is incredible.When I tried it out in the store I had a Strat going into a Fender Princeton Reverb Reissue and I set it up like the salesman said to get the best possible tone that I could get.While I was playing a few blues riffs he hit the engage button on the pedal and the result was astounding,the pedal put more depth and fullness into the signal than I ever thought possible.With this pedal engaged the signal becomes so full that the notes actually sustain much longer than usual.

Any of these pedals would be worth trying out before spending hundreds for a new amp.Cheers.


+1

Great advice all, thanks again.

I think Ima sell my super champ and go for a Marshall Class V....I saw some vids of it and I love how its single channel only 5 W. I think with some nice pedals I could get some really good sustain out of it.


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