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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:48 pm
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KC9SYJ wrote:
One comment/question here and then I need to get back to my practicing,...okay,suppose I do an instrumental cover of the song "I'll Never Find Another You" or "Georgy Girl" by the Australia folk group The Seekers. If I labeled the video as an instrumental cover for your enjoyment and mine,would I still find myself in violation of copyright laws even if I would mention in the description that I don't own the rights to the song and that I am only performing it for my own enjoyment as well as yours as a viewer/listener?


Yes, you are still in violation. By not naming the song anywhere just makes it harder for the copyright police to find it.


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:55 pm
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Just a side point, but something to bear in mind is that very often the copyright owner is not the artist but someone else entirely to whom they sold their rights when they signed a ruthless contract in a car park late at night when they were 19 years old. Sometimes even grownups with good management sign away their rights and are not the owners of their own material. The music business is absolutely full of that sort of thing.

So when people are told to take down their Prince/Beatles/Dylan/etc cover from YouTube it may or may not be the artist, or anyone representing them, that's issuing the order. Often as not it's a record company or a division of an entirely different corporation, for whom a back catalog is a significant source of income, and therefore worth protecting.

Just before folks get too angry with individual named artists...

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:15 pm
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Drubbing wrote:
KC9SYJ wrote:
One comment/question here and then I need to get back to my practicing,...okay,suppose I do an instrumental cover of the song "I'll Never Find Another You" or "Georgy Girl" by the Australia folk group The Seekers. If I labeled the video as an instrumental cover for your enjoyment and mine,would I still find myself in violation of copyright laws even if I would mention in the description that I don't own the rights to the song and that I am only performing it for my own enjoyment as well as yours as a viewer/listener?


Yes, you are still in violation. By not naming the song anywhere just makes it harder for the copyright police to find it.


Let's say for example I re-title the song "Stay by my side",...or use a line in the song that goes like this "It's a long,long journey",...would the copyright police still be able to recognize it? I don't not want to break the law,but I want to make my first video here soon as I have none up on my channel at all. Again,..it would be an instrumental number.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:16 pm
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KC9SYJ wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
KC9SYJ wrote:
One comment/question here and then I need to get back to my practicing,...okay,suppose I do an instrumental cover of the song "I'll Never Find Another You" or "Georgy Girl" by the Australia folk group The Seekers. If I labeled the video as an instrumental cover for your enjoyment and mine,would I still find myself in violation of copyright laws even if I would mention in the description that I don't own the rights to the song and that I am only performing it for my own enjoyment as well as yours as a viewer/listener?


Yes, you are still in violation. By not naming the song anywhere just makes it harder for the copyright police to find it.


Let's say for example I re-title the song "Stay by my side",...or use a line in the song that goes like this "It's a long,long journey",...would the copyright police still be able to recognize it? I don't not want to break the law,but I want to make my first video here soon as I have none up on my channel at all. Again,..it would be an instrumental number.


Go for it. I have over 50 video's of my bands and other bands doing covers. Most have been up for 1 to 2 years and I just recently had a video taken down for the first time. I think there are a very limited number of artists whose people concern themselves with us peons trying to imitate their stars.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:47 pm
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Many consider copyright infringement as a form of censorship.


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:30 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Just a side point, but something to bear in mind is that very often the copyright owner is not the artist but someone else entirely to whom they sold their rights when they signed a ruthless contract in a car park late at night when they were 19 years old. Sometimes even grownups with good management sign away their rights and are not the owners of their own material. The music business is absolutely full of that sort of thing.

So when people are told to take down their Prince/Beatles/Dylan/etc cover from YouTube it may or may not be the artist, or anyone representing them, that's issuing the order. Often as not it's a record company or a division of an entirely different corporation, for whom a back catalog is a significant source of income, and therefore worth protecting.

Just before folks get too angry with individual named artists...

Cheers - C


+1. No derail here. Cheers to you stranger. :D


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:12 am
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chromeface wrote:
Many consider copyright infringement as a form of censorship.


There ARE those who believe that they are entitled to anything and everything on the planet for the taking at no cost to themselves. Their detractors refer to them as parasite. ' There's plenty of public domain out there to feed on. Anyone who objects needs to be respected for it.

Metallica
' will break its back for its audience, and they have always made it known that they deeply appreciate their support, but they were also very publicly emphatic that their work product is theirs and theirs alone, and NOT for free.

If anyone seriously has a problem with these policies, boycott the sources which enforce them and do not financially support any artist whose work you cannot expropriate for you own use without cost. :idea: That's called 'putting your money where your mouth is.' Under the circumstances, you may not really have any serious coin to put up, but the principle remains the same. :wink:

I doubt any world-wide movement of sorts will ever happen...e.g.
Boycott Youtube. Failing that, the establishment of non-public, file sharing 'club's among small groups of friends should be a no-brainer. The entire planet does not necessarily have to know that you can dime Slash's solos, nor do they really give damn.

There is another interesting side to this issue which one might argue where music is concerned. The author[s] argue entitlement to a royalty payment for the perfomance thereof through another venue be it live music, radio, and so on. The venue might argue that they, in reality, are providing publicity for the author's work, in fact disseminating the work. Free advertising, so to say, which might ultimately result purchase of same work product. So why should the vendor pay for that service particularly since there is no way to prevent the listener from recording any of it, at least from a radio source. I've actually witnessed the confiscation of a video camera from a patron seated in from of me at a performance in the Metropolitan Opera House. Kind of tough that, with a stadium audience of 50K souls, unless everyone goes through a scanner. Don't see much in the way of censorship of live performance concert video on Youtube.

Do you??

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Last edited by ZZDoc on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:33 am
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chromeface wrote:
Many consider copyright infringement as a form of censorship.

Yes - Youtube were strong promoters of that point of view in their earlier days (not so long ago). They wanted to make mountains of advertising revenue out of other people's music and film material without paying any copyright fees for it. Which is downright plain theft - but they had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the courts to the present position where they now pay for at least some of what they use for their vastly profitable business.

Copyright law can seem like a pain when it's stopping some kid from publishing his cover of a famous number to the net for no reason more harmful than impressing his friends.

But as musicians, many of whom will nurture dreams of having successful records and earning a living, copyright is there to protect us in what we do. People very often find they have a much more favourable view of copyright the moment they have some intellectual property of their own.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:49 am
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Ceri wrote:
Yes - Youtube were strong promoters of that point of view in their earlier days (not so long ago). They wanted to make mountains of advertising revenue out of other people's music and film material without paying any copyright fees for it. Which is downright plain theft - but they had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the courts to the present position where they now pay for at least some of what they use for their vastly profitable business.Cheers - C

Interesting. I wonder was the argument made that they were actually providing free publicity, advertising, and dissemination for the works. Might there have been some gain in preventing users from downloading same or permitting the listening of only a portion of a work, as marketing websites do. :idea: :?:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:50 am
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Ceri wrote:
chromeface wrote:
Many consider copyright infringement as a form of censorship.


But as musicians, many of whom will nurture dreams of having successful records and earning a living, copyright is there to protect us in what we do. People very often find they have a much more favourable view of copyright the moment they have some intellectual property of their own.

Cheers - C


Ah! It's a profit deal. I get it! (Steve Martin / The Jerk, probably not word for word.)

As the OP, I'd like to reiterate that I'm not condoning illegal downloading or unauthorized use of material to make a profit. When I started this thread I actually thought that if I marked my video as a cover and didn't have advertising, that it was okay. I now realize I was wrong and can live with reality. I wonder when I'll read a news story about someone from a publishing company sitting in a bar all night and then handing the band a bill at the end of the night. That could be an interesting read! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:01 am
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Drew365 wrote:
I wonder when I'll read a news story about someone from a publishing company sitting in a bar all night and then handing the band a bill at the end of the night. That could be an interesting read! :lol:

You laugh :?: :shock: It's done :!: There was a discussion of same on Facebook. A musician posted a sign which read "No more than 3 covers!" Apparently BMI and ASCAP have canvassers which monitor live performance venues in many cities. The owners of these venues have to pay a royalty for the covers played by the bands they hire, which is why many of these venues limit/forbid performance of covers. They want originals, to avoid the fees. In all my time working at The Cafe WHA??? doing covers ourselves, and having others doing same, I never heard Manny Roth state that he had to pay royalties, but that was nearly 50 years ago, or he was lucky.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:15 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
I wonder was the argument made that they were actually providing free publicity, advertising, and dissemination for the works.

Haha - Youtube used that argument till it had worn thin, as do lots of other people who want to use others' property without asking or paying.

Fact is, property law is what makes the western economic model work. It's not the only model, but it's by about a thousand miles the most successful one, and frankly the least unfair.


Drew365 wrote:
I wonder when I'll read a news story about someone from a publishing company sitting in a bar all night and then handing the band a bill at the end of the night. That could be an interesting read! :lol:

The name of Prince has been mentioned several times on this thread. Prince is someone who has very conspicuously fought long and hard over the way he feels he's been mistreated by the corporate side of the music business. To this day he doesn't control the rights to most of his more significant output, so when people are told to take down their Prince covers it's unlikely to be him or his own people doing it.

So when Prince sees his material being endlessly downloaded from Youtube, as far as he's concerned Youtube is just another huge corporation using and abusing him - and he has a big point.

A helluvalot of company people have drunk all the way to the bank on Prince's tab.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:23 am
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Ceri wrote:
Fact is, property law is what makes the western economic model work. It's not the only model, but it's by about a thousand miles the most successful one, and frankly the least unfair

Of course. I've argued much in the way of support of intellectual property law in our discussions about when a Strat can no longer be represented as a Strat. There's also those members of my family whose work product are protected by same.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:27 am
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considering this is a musician's forum, I'd expect more people to lean in the direction of the artists rights. I guess not. :?

Any photographers or graphic artists out there? Do you let people post your images on their website, as long as it's just for fun?

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:32 am
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Here is a different aspect of this discussion (I think). I apologize if this is discussed above. I don't think so.

Another thing copyright owners do is "tag" a video as "content recognized" but allow it to remain on youtube and use it as free extra advertising for the copyrighted work. They tag it as "content recognized" and leave it on youtube, add a link to buy it on amazon or iTunes, and monetize it to run ads in the video. LOL. This happened to my video here and I take it as a total compliment!

Here's why. I have discovered--and youtube explains--that when the corporate copyright holders find copyrighted content on youtube, they do it based on the actual audio of the video--the actual sound inside the video, not the title of the video assigned by the youtube creator. If you put covers songs on youtube, you will notice that it usually only happens when the cover artist plays along with the real track...the actual mp3 from the real CD is heard in the video. Then the computers work their magic and "hear" the real song in the video and it triggers their alarm.

In this video of mine, as I like to do all my covers, it's all me. Me and my guitar and amp. So I take it as a compliment that Geffen Records, Inc. has tagged my cover and decided to use it as advertising to sell more Nirvana records.



And make no mistake, that is exactly what they did. They found that I played their copyrighted song, tagged it, left it on youtube, added advertisements for the new Nirvana box set to run inside the video (and they "monetized" it meaning they make money just from people clicking on the ad), and added a link so people who see my video can buy it on iTunes or amazon. I guess Geffen Records thought my playing did Kurt proud or at least was not embarrassing enough to remove the video. Nope--my cover is now official advertising for Geffen Records, Inc.

lol

By the way, the only reason I noticed this is that I was reviewing my videos on my phone and found that this one was not available on mobile. I make all my videos available on mobile, so when I went to try to change it, I found that Geffen Records has changed my settings, so I can't make it available on mobile.


Last edited by Her Wanna on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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