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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:31 pm
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I find it funny how YouTube have loads of unauthorised copies of copyright material and they generally get away with it. Yet the founder of megaupload.com gets chased out of the village for having a cloud storage site that shares information and does not violate copyright infringements.

It's all political bs from Hollywood & the music industry and it's nothing more than a farce. :evil:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:57 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
He gets the idea that the artists concerned aren't even aware of this, and its driven by the publishers lawyers.


I'd take that bet too.

"If it weren't for lawyers, we wouldn't need lawyers."

:evil:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:27 am
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Drubbing wrote:
Copyright infringement enforcement of this type is entirely arbitrary and ad hoc.


The alternative is to shut down YouTube altogether, would that be better?

A lot of what's posted on YouTube is content that was created long before YouTube existed - hell before the Internet existed. Before the Internet, you would have to pay money to see or hear that content, why should it be different now?

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:51 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Drubbing wrote:
Copyright infringement enforcement of this type is entirely arbitrary and ad hoc.


The alternative is to shut down YouTube altogether, would that be better?



Not sure what your response has to do with my point.

Shutting YT down would be too hard, and google is too big to sue all at once. That's why the lawyers peck at a few random users.


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:16 am
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Enforcement will be 'entirely arbitrary and ad hoc' as long as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act is in place and not changed.

DMCA protects websites like YouTube under a provision known as "safe harbor" that makes them unaccountable for such content until they becomes aware of it.

Why you don't see a whole lot of Prince videos on YouTube, but you can find tons of Bruno Mars content? Because the people who represent Prince actively search for the content and bring it to YouTube's attention, whereas the people representing Bruno Mars apparently see it as a good thing to have his content up there for free.

YouTube can not possibly investigate every single video that gets uploaded, that's just not realistic. So that's what I mean by 'The alternative is to shut down YouTube altogether'.
See how that relates to your comment?

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:43 am
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strings10927 wrote:
A lot of what's posted on YouTube is content that was created long before YouTube existed - hell before the Internet existed. Before the Internet, you would have to pay money to see or hear that content, why should it be different now?


I think the premise is false. It's the performer that's liable, not the listener.
And posting a selfie doing a cover is much like sitting on a park bench playing. ASCAP/BMI/BIEM/STEMRA and others never went after self-expression like that - but Internet makes it much easier for them, so now they do it.

Personally, I think the original composer/artist would be better off if they were given a portion of the ad revenue from the covers. Say I post a selfie of "Ohio", and mark it as being a cover of Neil Young - then after a year, perhaps it has brought in $200 in ad revenues, and Neil Young gets a portion of that. Everybody is happy. Except the lawyers.


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 am
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arth1 wrote:
Personally, I think the original composer/artist would be better off if they were given a portion of the ad revenue from the covers.


What I'm saying is under the current laws, that is up to the artist. Bruno Mars likes your cover. Prince doesn't.

Prince has a right to protect his product, until someone comes along and makes a law that says he is obligated to give it out. And the day that law is passed, you may very well see less 'self-expression' from a guy like Prince. Then you'll have to think up a song all by yourself! :shock:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:28 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Prince has a right to protect his product, until someone comes along and makes a law that says he is obligated to give it out.


You mean like the 1909 Copyright Act which mandates compulsory licenses, precisely so others can make cover versions? That's the whole premise for why BMI and ASCAP exists, so royalties can be collected even when there has been no negotiations and contract with the artist.
If you decide to play "Purple Rain", Prince will have a hard time stopping you, but he will get paid.

I think it's fair that the same thing happens with Youtube - the income is ad revenue for Google, and I think they should be expected to pay the copyright holders.

The way to retain full control of a work is to not release it to the public by performing it for the public. If you don't want the protection of the copyright law, and the obligations attached, you are free to choose a different method of performing, like performing for and selling music through contracts only.
But you can't have it both ways. If you accept copyright protection, you must also accept things like compulsory licensing and eventual expiration of your rights.


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:43 am
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arth1 wrote:
You mean like the 1909 Copyright Act


You do realize YouTube is available to an international market - you're quoting a US law.....

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:59 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Prince has a right to protect his product, until someone comes along and makes a law that says he is obligated to give it out. And the day that law is passed, you may very well see less 'self-expression' from a guy like Prince. Then you'll have to think up a song all by yourself! :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: and we'll all be worried about that eh?

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:05 am
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Prince is just an example. Insert an artist you care about.

And the day that law is passed, you may very well see less 'self-expression' from a guy like _____.

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:12 am
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strings10927 wrote:
arth1 wrote:
You mean like the 1909 Copyright Act


You do realize YouTube is available to an international market - you're quoting a US law.....


The DMCA which enables the takedowns is a US law too - what point are you trying to make, exactly?


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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:21 am
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arth1 wrote:
The DMCA which enables the takedowns is a US law too.....


....that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:28 pm
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One comment/question here and then I need to get back to my practicing,...okay,suppose I do an instrumental cover of the song "I'll Never Find Another You" or "Georgy Girl" by the Australia folk group The Seekers. If I labeled the video as an instrumental cover for your enjoyment and mine,would I still find myself in violation of copyright laws even if I would mention in the description that I don't own the rights to the song and that I am only performing it for my own enjoyment as well as yours as a viewer/listener?

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Post subject: Re: YouTube and Copyright Infringement
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:46 pm
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KC9SYJ wrote:
One comment/question here and then I need to get back to my practicing,...okay,suppose I do an instrumental cover of the song "I'll Never Find Another You" or "Georgy Girl" by the Australia folk group The Seekers. If I labeled the video as an instrumental cover for your enjoyment and mine,would I still find myself in violation of copyright laws even if I would mention in the description that I don't own the rights to the song and that I am only performing it for my own enjoyment as well as yours as a viewer/listener?


Yes you would still be in violation of the law. But YouTube and all of us budding entertainers are relying of the copyright holder not bothering us since there's really no downside to us keeping their music alive and popular. A few artists like Prince and Pink Floyd, seem to have over exuberant watch dogs working for them.
I'm probably going to curtail the number of covers I post on YouTube for now on. Rather than post whole songs like I have been, I may make a compilation of a show with parts from a bunch of different songs. Technically that's still not legal, but it should be less of a target for the lawyers.

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