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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:38 am
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Just as a reminder, there was a guy named Link Wray who was a serious 'holy grail of tone questor' back in the late 50's. He punched a hole in the speaker cone and, using an extraterrestrial thing known as a Danelectro Guitarlin recorded a couple of instrumental classics: "Rumble" and "Rawhide". We all heard that sound and said, "WTF"!?!?!?. "How do you do that?!?!?!" There was no way back then until the fuzz pedals evolved. Fast forward to "Pink Floyd" and George Luca's 'Industrial Light and Magic' gadgetry for sound creations, as examples. At the end of the day, what gets you your sound is what counts. Solid state or tube, not withstanding. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:31 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
tbazzone wrote:
I gotta get me a cigar box

....from Cuba.....and full. :idea:

That would be fantastic. Partigus #4


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:07 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Given that the amp has enough power to move the elements in a controlled manner. I've seen/heard enough examples of too large speaker elements for the amp that were supposed to drive them.
Unless you want the special effect of cardboard flapping, the amp stage needs to match the elements. At least.

Sure, you can play softer, but you need to have a minimum volume to overcome the built-in resistance of the elements, which is much higher for guitar speakers than, say, studio monitors. So that leaves you with very little leeway up and down.


BS!

I've played a 6-watt Vibrochamp through a 2 x 15 Dual Showman cab and a Princeton Reverb through a pair of twelves. Both sound positively ballsy. You haven't got a clue as to what you're talking about.

Arjay


Total BS, I agree!
I routinely play my 74 Champ through my two 112 cabs and it sounds great. You get a bit more headroom too because you're moving more air. I've played tiny solis state 1watt amps through the same configuration. The whole cardboard flapping thing is total nonsense. It's not just clipping. I too have been playing for over 45 years, a lot of that time professionally and build some of my own amps and pedals. You can drive a 4x12 with a half watt if you want to and still sound good in many situations.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:16 am
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I suppose there's something to say for the amp used to record Layla. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:19 am
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Her Wanna wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
It's hard to replicate the sag of a rectifier tube. I'm not saying it's all bad sounding, but it's different. It's not even close.

Was it a Fender Mustang amp you tried? Did you try adjusting the sag and bias settings yourself?

This has been my question. The people who say the SS amps are not even close, are you talking about a Line 6 that you played in 1987 or a G-dec from 2005?


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:45 pm
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This has been my question. The people who say the SS amps are not even close, are you talking about a Line 6 that you played in 1987 or a G-dec from 2005?[/quote]

::::cricket cricket ::::

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No, I'm talking about current production modeling amps. You never give up do you? Buyers remourse? :lol: believe me if I found a solid state amp that had a tone I liked for a third the cost, I'd be on that in a New York minute for sure. I tried a couple out while I was in NYC this weekend seeing John Mayall. No dice. Just didn't like them. Mayall was using a Roland Jazz Chorus that sounded pretty sweet though. That amp has to be around at least 30 years.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:08 pm
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LOL. "current production" what?

The question was: "Have you played a Fender Mustang 4?"

We've got people here who answer questions like Bill Clinton did.


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:17 pm
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63supro wrote:
I tried a couple out while I was in NYC this weekend seeing John Mayall. No dice. Just didn't like them. .

Tried what out? Here's my question again, you keep conveniently missing this bit:
strings10927 wrote:
Was it a Fender Mustang amp you tried? Did you try adjusting the sag and bias settings yourself?

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:05 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Does a 2X12 naturally provide a slight chorus effect to any extent that a guitarist might prefer 2X12 for that reason? It seems like as a matter of physics, a 2X12 has 2 speakers singing next to each other about 4 or 6 inches apart.



If it does, I've never heard it(and most likely, neither will anyone else). I've played through oversized, undersized, regular 212 cabs and have never experienced any sort of natural chorus effect.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:14 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
In short, is there any kind of feeling of "once you go 2X12 you'll never go back to 1X12" even if 2X12 is a Mustang solid state amp, or am I the first person to have this thought.


I think that the feeling might be there, but I also believe that one should always weigh all their options. So until you go out and try all these other amps that you don't believe are capable of holding their own weight......well then I guess you'll just never know. After all, you can't miss something you've never had.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:32 pm
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socal323 wrote:
Her Wanna wrote:
Does a 2X12 naturally provide a slight chorus effect to any extent that a guitarist might prefer 2X12 for that reason? It seems like as a matter of physics, a 2X12 has 2 speakers singing next to each other about 4 or 6 inches apart.



If it does, I've never heard it(and most likely, neither will anyone else). I've played through oversized, undersized, regular 212 cabs and have never experienced any sort of natural chorus effect.


+1000

If even one iota of that theory held true, the 4 x 10 Super Reverb would be known world-wide as a virtual "chorus machine", the 6 x 10 Super Six Reverb even more so.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:38 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
I tried a couple out while I was in NYC this weekend seeing John Mayall. No dice. Just didn't like them. .

Tried what out? Here's my question again, you keep conveniently missing this bit:
strings10927 wrote:
Was it a Fender Mustang amp you tried? Did you try adjusting the sag and bias settings yourself?


I'm not conveniently missing anything. I told you a couple of times it was a Mustang IV, and didn't like it. Period. Get it? I'm getting pretty bored with this conversation. I also tried a Supro Thunderbolt that I loved last weekend. If I didn't take the train to NY I would have brought that one home.

Listen, I'm allowed to not like a digital modeling amp, or even none of them. Get over it. If I have to work to get a sound I like out of an amp by twiddling a bunch of settings and presets, I can't be bothered with it and it ain't for me. I never said it wasn't for you. Seems like you're trying to bait an argument, but it ain't gonna work. If you like your amp it's all cool and that's all that matters. If you don't understand why some of us like tube amps better, you probably never owned a decent one. I made a half decent living way back playing professionally with my tube amps I might add. It's what I'm used to. I never got rich or famous, but I supported myself and paid my bills and had a lot of fun while I was doing it. And by the way most were Fender amps. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:53 pm
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I'll take that as a 'NO, I did not try adjusting the sag and bias settings myself'

Edit:

63supro wrote:
If you don't understand why some of us like tube amps better, you probably never owned a decent one.


fwiw, my other amp is a 1969 Silverface Fender Super Reverb Amp. Still working on restoring it but it's fully functional. Sounds sweet.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:03 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I'll take that as a 'NO, I did not try adjusting the sag and bias settings myself'

Edit:

63supro wrote:
If you don't understand why some of us like tube amps better, you probably never owned a decent one.


fwiw, my other amp is a 1969 Silverface Fender Super Reverb Amp. Still working on restoring it but it's fully functional. Sounds sweet.


Yes I did, or should I say the salesman was trying to demo it and also gave me a demo of Fuse. Sorry, Bias and Sag mean nothing in the digital world because it well, digital. It has nothing to do with tubes and voltage. He set the sag to near zero and the bias full tilt and tried to tell me it was more tube like. Shouldn't even be. Without the sag it ain't tube like to me. It's just more digital BS to me. It's hard to fake a tube and voltage response. :wink: The whole Mustang series seems more like a glorified GDec to me. I tried it, and it was an huge disappointment to me. Glad you have a Super Reverb. Any photos? Do you like the Mustang better than the Super Reverb?

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:06 pm
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Well there ya go, you tried one setting that the salesman dialed in.

Which do I like better? Honestly if I had to give up one of them it would be the Super Reverb. It's just too heavy to bring everywhere with me. And if you compare features, well, the Super just doesn't measure up.

MUSTANG
Great clean tones
Looks cool
Great with pedals
Loud as hell
37 built in effects (including Vibrato)

Great dirty and lead tones
Good at low volumes and high
Lightweight
Small
Versatile
Inexpensive
Reliable/Durable
Low maintenance
USB out to PC
100 Presets
Built in tuner
Headphone jack/line out
Effects loop
Settings can be locked
Bump a dial on the way to the gig = no change
5 Year Warranty


SUPER REVERB AMP
Great clean tones
Looks cool
Great with pedals
Loud as hell
Vibrato

Better traction in snow (just put it in trunk) :roll:
Helps grow attractive lobster arm on one side
:lol:

Here's a couple of 'before' shots of the Super, I haven't taken any 'after' shots yet as it's a work in progress:

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Last edited by strings10927 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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