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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:39 pm
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fwiw, Malmsteen didn't use a whole lot of effects :idea:

I think you guys probably scroll through the 'factory loaded presets' and declare the amp crap based on that. So no wonder.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:57 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
and silly over-done digital effects that are marketed for nine year old Malmsteen fans.


Five complimentary tubes of Clearasil are included with each purchase.

(offer not valid for those beyond the age of puberty)


Should be five bottles of liquid band-aid. Digital effects? No, at that level, you actually play the effects.
I may not like his music, but there's no doubt that he can play, and the reason why is an extreme amount of practicing for a long time. You don't reach that level without blood, sweat and tears.


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:06 pm
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63supro wrote:
1neeto wrote:
Don't get too caught up in the tube vs ss thing. I have a Marshall 2x12 ss amp and it was louder and with way more overhead tone than the other guitar player's 1x12 tube blackstar amp. Do you like what you hear from your amp? That's what matters.


Neeto, I'm too old to get caught up in that debate. :lol:
I like what I like. A friend of mine has a Blackstar, I'm kind of on the fence about it. I like my Egnater, and I do like the old Peavey Trans Tube series amps. I just like what I like. What bothers me about the new solid state amps are how quickly they become landfill. How about a nice old school thick wide traced PCB without all the ribbon connectors and silly over-done digital effects that are marketed for nine year old Malmsteen fans. That would be nice for a change.

I had a GDec that dumped on me after a couple of months after I received it as a gift. Data wheel problems. Fender just tossed it and gave me credit for a new one that I traded for a GDec 30 that I really don't like that much either. Like I said, I'm just picky. I'm not brand loyal either. I play anything and everything.

I disagree that SS amps become landfill quickly. Digital modeling amps? Maybe, but digital modeling is so good nowadays that I don't see why a Mustang III won't sound as good in 20 years as it sounds now.

People need to get out of their heads that solid state will always be inferior to tubes. That was true 20-30 years ago, but not so much today.

Who has used Solid State in recordings AND live?

Jimmy Page
Dimebag Darryl
Tom Petty
Tom Sholz
George Lynch
Mick Mars
David Gilmour
Frank Zappa
George Harrison
John Lennon
Carlos Santana
Brian May
Alex Lifeson

Seriously it's a very long list.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:11 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
I think you guys probably scroll through the 'factory loaded presets' and declare the amp crap based on that. So no wonder.

As a current Line-6 owner and a former Line-6 user (that means I still have the amp but I don't use it) I can safely say there is some truth in that observation. I found my AX2-212 to be a better sounding amp than the factory presets would lead one to believe. It took a lot of learning and exploring and tweaking to find some decent sounds. Still can't call it good tone though despite being perhaps a bit better than some folks think. Maybe for that highly processed shredder music you might be able to call it good tone....

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:36 pm
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1neeto wrote:
I disagree that SS amps become landfill quickly. Digital modeling amps? Maybe, but digital modeling is so good nowadays that I don't see why a Mustang III won't sound as good in 20 years as it sounds now.

Running the same presets as you programmed 20 years ago? Cause there's little doubt in my mind that you won't be able to hook a 2033 computer (or what's used instead) to a 2013 Mustang III.
Heck, the software is even too old to work with many 2012 computers.


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:44 pm
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arth1 wrote:
1neeto wrote:
I disagree that SS amps become landfill quickly. Digital modeling amps? Maybe, but digital modeling is so good nowadays that I don't see why a Mustang III won't sound as good in 20 years as it sounds now.

Running the same presets as you programmed 20 years ago? Cause there's little doubt in my mind that you won't be able to hook a 2033 computer (or what's used instead) to a 2013 Mustang III.
Heck, the software is even too old to work with many 2012 computers.

Why not? A good tone is a good tone no matter if it's today, 40 years ago, or 40 years from now.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:14 pm
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1neeto wrote:
Why not? A good tone is a good tone no matter if it's today, 40 years ago, or 40 years from now.

How many 20 year old synths do you see? Or 30?[*] Or 40?
Sure, the tone might be good, but the chips tend to wear out after a decade or less. You have to scrounge parts to get them to work for a while. Try to buy a new 6501 chip for a late 70s modulator...
SS amps with built-in computers will face the same problem.
And, as said, you're pretty much guaranteed to not be able to change the presets, so you may be stuck with defaults.

[*]: There is this exception, but read the liner notes of how many problems there were using 30 year old solid state hardware.



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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:24 pm
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1neeto wrote:
Who has used Solid State in recordings AND live?

Jimmy Page
Dimebag Darryl
Tom Petty
Tom Sholz
George Lynch
Mick Mars
David Gilmour
Frank Zappa
George Harrison
John Lennon
Carlos Santana
Brian May
Alex Lifeson

Seriously it's a very long list.


And...

Who can afford to replace them instantly when their electronics are fried by something seemingly as innocuous as a simple Carpet Spark (that is, if the manufacturer doesn't just give them a replacement) ??

Jimmy Page
Dimebag Darryl
Tom Petty
Tom Sholz
George Lynch
Mick Mars
David Gilmour
Frank Zappa
George Harrison
John Lennon
Carlos Santana
Brian May
Alex Lifeson

No getting around it. Have a problem w/ an SS Amp, and it's no longer worth even the sum total of it's parts !

While they can be repaired, at today's Labor rates, it makes more sense to buy two at a time so you have a spare when that pesky house spider walks across the live PCB and takes himself and the amp to the netherworld ! :shock:

I realize a good portion of the folks here have never known anything but a Disposable World. Suppose in a way that's good. Use it, throw it away, buy another... keeps the economy chugging along ! :wink:

cheers!

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Last edited by Lightnin MN on Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:54 pm
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strings10927 wrote:

I think you guys probably scroll through the 'factory loaded presets' and declare the amp crap based on that. So no wonder.


LOL dude, it's worse than that. Have you not noticed that all the SS bashers are talking about 1987 Line 6s or the discontinued G-decs? lzolzozzlzlol. They admit--perhaps rightly so--that they have not tried a SS or modeling amp since those outdated ones 20 years ago. One hint folks: mustang line replaced G-decs.

Who has played a mustang 4?

Need no computer to change presents or effects on Mustang 3 or 4, folks.

Will it last 30 years? Don't know. Not sure if DRRI will either. According to the forum discussion on that amp, it comes with defects and has to be replaced under warranty 75% of the time.


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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:20 pm
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Her Wanna wrote:
Will it last 30 years? Don't know. Not sure if DRRI will either. According to the forum discussion on that amp, it comes with defects and has to be replaced under warranty 75% of the time.


Precisely why I stick with vintage amps only......

Image

This '68 Deluxe Reverb is forty-five years old.

Still looks great and still earns its keep.

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:00 pm
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arth1 wrote:
1neeto wrote:
Why not? A good tone is a good tone no matter if it's today, 40 years ago, or 40 years from now.

How many 20 year old synths do you see? Or 30?[*] Or 40?
Sure, the tone might be good, but the chips tend to wear out after a decade or less. You have to scrounge parts to get them to work for a while. Try to buy a new 6501 chip for a late 70s modulator...
SS amps with built-in computers will face the same problem.
And, as said, you're pretty much guaranteed to not be able to change the presets, so you may be stuck with defaults.

[*]: There is this exception, but read the liner notes of how many problems there were using 30 year old solid state hardware.


Can't really compare today's SS amps from those from yesteryear. The beauty of SS amps is that they're inexpensive. If I spend $300 on a SS amp and 10 years later it has no factory support and takes a crap? I'd consider that money well spent.
Lightnin MN wrote:
1neeto wrote:
Who has used Solid State in recordings AND live?

Jimmy Page
Dimebag Darryl
Tom Petty
Tom Sholz
George Lynch
Mick Mars
David Gilmour
Frank Zappa
George Harrison
John Lennon
Carlos Santana
Brian May
Alex Lifeson

Seriously it's a very long list.


And...

Who can afford to replace them instantly when their electronics are fried by something seemingly as innocuous as a simple Carpet Spark (that is, if the manufacturer doesn't just give them a replacement) ??

Jimmy Page
Dimebag Darryl
Tom Petty
Tom Sholz
George Lynch
Mick Mars
David Gilmour
Frank Zappa
George Harrison
John Lennon
Carlos Santana
Brian May
Alex Lifeson

No getting around it. Have a problem w/ an SS Amp, and it's no longer worth even the sum total of it's parts !

While they can be repaired, at today's Labor rates, it makes more sense to buy two at a time so you have a spare when that pesky house spider walks across the live PCB and takes with himself and the amp to the netherworld ! :shock:

I realize a good portion of the folks here have never known anything but a Disposable World. Suppose in a way that's good. Use it, throw it away, buy another... keeps the economy chugging along ! :wink:

cheers!

SS amps are cheap. That's the beauty of them. They allow you to get a tone at low volumes, and if they crap out it's not a big deal because they're cheap.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:18 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
This '68 Deluxe Reverb is forty-five years old.

Still looks great and still earns its keep.

:wink:

Arjay


and more power to ya. It's just for those of us who can't drop $1000-2000 on a tube amp, this is awfully attractive and it gets the job done.

Image

Currently $329.99 at Guitar Center

For the price of 1 tube amp, I can buy one of these for each season of the year, and still have money left over.

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:02 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
... Precisely why I stick with vintage amps only......

Image

This '68 Deluxe Reverb is forty-five years old.

Still looks great and still earns its keep.

:wink:

Arjay


Lookin' Good Arjay !

You and the Amp ! 8)

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:33 am
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This is sloppy as heck, but I kinda like how the solo bounces.



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Post subject: Re: 2X12 vs. 1X12
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:11 am
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1neeto wrote:
Can't really compare today's SS amps from those from yesteryear. The beauty of SS amps is that they're inexpensive. If I spend $300 on a SS amp and 10 years later it has no factory support and takes a crap? I'd consider that money well spent.

True, but some value consistency too. If having to replace an amp with a new and different amp, you have to learn the new amp, and may never get the exact same tone as your favorite setting. Some might not care, and move on, while others will want what they're used to and like, and are willing to pay an up front price for that.

It's the same thing with guitars - you can get them with built-in digital effects and midi cables now, yet the great majority of players prefer simple and dependable over features and planned obsolescence. The Japanese monster guitars with quad pickups and more buttons than a synth never caught on.

Yes, quality has a price. And some are willing to pay for that. I respect that choice.


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