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Post subject: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:28 pm
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I've been experimenting with alternate tunings on my acoustic guitar and I wonder if there is amp/keyboard effect that simulates orchestral pitch-changes, say you want to play flat, can you? I know there are strings setting on a lot of keyboards but you can't control the sharpness or the flatness of the pitch. :?:


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:35 pm
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Gotta get into the chip and reprogram. If you're talking about just going a couple of cents sharp or flat. Some keyboards have the ability to shift away from concert pitch. The ones that do it well cost a bit though.

You could theoretically do it with one of those pitch bending dials that you sometimes see on keyboards, though you'd have to be damn good at it. Or alternatively use a pitch shifting pedal. Like the Boss PS2. Though you'd still have the problem of accurately tuning and the tracking isn't always that great on them.

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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:26 am
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I'm sure I'm missing something here, but on a keyboard ....wouldn't you just play it in another key?

Or (as stated above) change the pitch of the instrument, most keyboards I've encountered could do it. Even some little practice keyboards.

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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:57 am
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strings10927 wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but on a keyboard ....wouldn't you just play it in another key?

Or (as stated above) change the pitch of the instrument, most keyboards I've encountered could do it. Even some little practice keyboards.


I'm wondering whether he means intonation/temper, where orchestral tuning is kind of a compromise for instruments with just intonation and equal tempered ones.

Yes, there are keyboards that will let you set the pitch of individual notes - if playing in C, you can flatten the E a few cents, for example, to get a more harmonic third.

I don't know of any filter boxes that will do it after the fact, though. It would be possible, I guess, to create an "auto-tune" that is adjustable. But I doubt it would be an improvement.


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:42 am
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ahhh I understand now. I've seen a couple of keyboards that could make semitone pitch adjustments over the years, but most of them step by 1/2 steps so I see the problem. Really no idea how to get around that, good question.

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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:53 am
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strings10927 wrote:
ahhh I understand now. I've seen a couple of keyboards that could make semitone pitch adjustments over the years, but most of them step by 1/2 steps so I see the problem. Really no idea how to get around that, good question.


My keyboard (a Roland GW-8) lets me change each note +/- 63 cents, but it's a tedious job, and there's no way to save/restore. So unless playing in just one key, it's kind of useless.

For guitars, you would need something like mobile frets:

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Or, of course, fretless.


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:37 pm
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Well, yes, the pitchwheel is probably the quickest way, but you can also tweak around the dials a bit on some synths...

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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:48 pm
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Actually this is an issue going back for the better part of a century. American musical treasure Irving Berlin (composer of "White Christmas" and other evergreens like "God Bless America") actually could not read or write standard notation. He played everything in C and used a lever on one of two pianos he owned to change the actual key. He had at least two such pianos built specially for him. Notice the lever poking downward from the right 1/3rd of the console.

Image

Image

Flip that lever and it would physically move the keyboard so the hand position didn't change but the key did!

Whenever Berlin was photographed at the piano working the only thing in front of him was blank paper upon which he wrote lyrics. I have never seen a single photo of him working with standard notation, only lyric sheets.

I was first told of this by a man who is now one of my oldest friends, but I found this all nearly impossible to believe at the time! My friend's grandfather could not only read standard notation but could transcribe standard notation by ear. He was also a songwriter and would earn extra money by transcribing some of Berlin's compositions into standard notation for him. My friend told me of the key shifting pianos Berlin had built and of his grandfather's involvement in transcribing for Berlin. It was in 1981 that he told me of this and at the time I found the claims outlandish, but have since found out my friend was telling the truth!

One of Berlin's transposing pianos was donated to the Smithsonian Institution in 1973, and the second is on display in the National Museum of American Jewish History. It seems Berlin thought in the key of C exclusively! Only by using one of the lever shift transposing pianos could he play any other key! He also is said to have liked the black keys a lot.


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:20 pm
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Thanks for all of your above comments! 8)


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:55 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
He also is said to have liked the black keys a lot.


Black keys are great. If you use E Flat as the Root, all of them are the Minor Pentatonic. I believe Stevie Wonder used the black keys a lot...


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:02 pm
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Thanks for your above comment! 8)


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:10 pm
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brotherdave, very interesting bit about Irving Berlin. It gives me the confidence knowing he was a hack just like me. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:21 pm
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Thanks, once again for the above comments! :?


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Post subject: Re: Non-Guitar Question
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:42 pm
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what's with the sour face, Mr. Mills? :|

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