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Post subject: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:12 am
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G'day,

I'd never even touched one before, but I couldn't resist this Korean made violin for $3 from
the recycling store at the local dump.

Image

The quality of some of the components suggest that it's a reasonably good instrument. The tuning pegs for instance are genuine ebony (not just painted black)
To get it up and running, I've ordered the missing parts including a bow, to take the total cost up to $28 bucks.

Does anyone have any experience with these things? Apparently they are tuned GDAE.
How hard can it be? :lol: :lol: :lol: ...um yeah.

Coincidentally, my other project at the moment is a 60s Kay Arch-top refurbishment.

Image

I'm also waiting on some parts for this. Tuners, bridge, nut.

So, I guess this will be a parallel build, as the parts arrive. Any advice would be welcome,especially regarding the violin. I wouldn't know the difference between a Stradivarius and a Ping-Pong paddle.

Goodonyaz ...Mark.


Last edited by boxbang on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:39 am
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boxbang wrote:
Any advice would be welcome,especially regarding the violin. I wouldn't know the difference between a Stradivarius and a Ping-Pong paddle.

The Stradivarius is highly inaccurate for serves.

Your main problem is going to be filing down and placing the bridge correctly, and moving the sound post (wooden "pillar" inside the violin, shores up the bridge and brings vibration from the top to the bottom). Yes, you likely have to carve and file the bridge - the fingerboard height varies, and so does the curvature of the top plate. So you want to get the action correct, and also not too much pressure on one side.

A violin is more sensitive to the bridge placement than most instruments, and the groove in the lacquer from the old bridge might not be right for placing a new bridge in. Get some fine grit sandpaper and be prepared to move it slightly after you put the strings on. Crumble up a tiny amount of rosin, and place the bridge on that, so it won't slide.

And if you didn't already, make sure you get a fine tuner for the E string.
And a sordin (muter).


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:00 am
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'Three Dollar Fiddle', would be a great band name. 8)


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:52 am
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Thanks arth1, I can't see any sign of the soundpost inside.
What does a Sordin look like mate? I'm not familiar with those.
The fiddle had a couple of fine-tuners with it, but I've ordered an aluminum tail-piece with built in fine tuners.
I'll have to look into the sound post issue though. Apparently there's a bass stick running the length of the body too. The feet of the bridge sit over these, correct?

The Kay was in rough shape when I got it. The whole guitar was brush coated with some sort of yellow varnish, even the fretboard. It came of fairly easily though, so did the blackness. I'm waiting for the appropriate stain to re-ebonize it.

Image

I'll have to make a bridge to accommodate a bone compensated saddle. I have some nice ebony for the job.

Goodonya ...Mark.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:49 am
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boxbang wrote:
Thanks arth1, I can't see any sign of the soundpost inside.

You may have to get one ordered then, or make one - it's just a thin hardwood dovel, really. Buying one is pennies, but getting it to the right length is a bit more hazzle. Get a long dovel, cut it into the length you think, try, cuss, discard it, cut another one. Repeat until you get it right. There's a special tool for placing the soundpost, but you can use a pair of curved pliers.

Normally, it is placed under the E-side of the bridge, with one corner of the bridge being partially above the soundpost. That placement lets it bring sound both directly from the bridge and from the lid to the back. It truly helps the sound.

boxbang wrote:
What does a Sordin look like mate? I'm not familiar with those.

Most people known them simply as muters. It's a tiny wooden comb with six or ten fingers, placed on top of the bridge, where it grips the area between the strings. It "steals" much of the vibrations, thus acting like a volume control and low-pass filter, making it possible to practice without scaring kittens. Think of it as a wooden stomp box!

boxbang wrote:
I'll have to look into the sound post issue though. Apparently there's a bass stick running the length of the body too. The feet of the bridge sit over these, correct?

Yes, but the bass keel might not be there - it depends on the instrument. Some only have thicker wood on that side. In any case, that's a fixed part of the instrument, so you don't have to worry much about it, unless it's come loose.

The violin is a complex instrument for being so simple. It's far more than a mandolin with a bow, for sure!

boxbang wrote:
The Kay was in rough shape when I got it. The whole guitar was brush coated with some sort of yellow varnish, even the fretboard. It came of fairly easily though, so did the blackness. I'm waiting for the appropriate stain to re-ebonize it.

It's good to have a project to work on, right? :D

We expect more pictures.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 am
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I'll jump in here....
1st... you may want to hail Ceri, as he's been busy building violins and may have a few horse hair idea's to pass on.. :wink:

Seriously as far as fine tuners, you don't need them, I would highly suggest ordering a set of Knilling planetary tuners... These will replace the ebony pegs, but they are a modern answer to the centuries old pegs... They are basically a mechanical geared tuning peg, look identical to the originals, all the gearing is internal, but will allow fine tuning without the frustration...
Believe me I had both a Viola and a Violin and the most frustrating part is getting the pegs sorted out.... There is a paste made specifically for the pegs.... Many string players play a standard set up but there are a lot of way's to improve the instrument...

Also before you start playing with tail piece which should be a standard ebony tail / chin rest.
Don't attach anything but what is designed for the fiddle... You will change the sound for the worst. Violin's are extremely sensitive to any changes and adversely affected by design changes.
BTW I assume this is a 4/4 size fiddle...? not a 3/4 sized....???
Violins are sized to accomodate young player's and up.. A 5 to 10 year old cannot comfortably play a 4/4 fiddle... thus the incremental sizes...

Look up Eastman, ale some of the online string instruments suppliers, there are a couple in the midwest which can provide you with all the necessary parts....
I would also have a Luthier ( a real luthier ) who specializes in string instrumentslook it over before you spend too much money on it.....
A violin does not have a string action like a Stratocaster, it is a very very different instrument.
Be ready to make some horrible noises which will not resemble anything musical....

There is quite a big learning curve not only in 1st, 2nd, 3rd position, but how to hold a bow, what type of resin to use, movement and string to bow angle, pressure etc...etc..

Here is one of the difficult parts of playing to master. As you are pulling the bow downwards, now you have to reverse the motion upwards but the note you are playing must sound uninterrupted.... :shock: :lol: :oops:

BTW.... you will more than likely clear out any living thing with ears for a half mile radius when learning to play.... :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:01 am
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53magnatone wrote:
Believe me I had both a Viola and a Violin and the most frustrating part is getting the pegs sorted out.... There is a paste made specifically for the pegs....


With ebony pegs, the problem is mitigated somewhat. Plastic, bone and regular wood is either too slick or has too much grip. Ebony behaves better. I hated the paste, because it tended to slide and stick. I used a very fine sand.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:36 pm
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Cool stuff--I can see how you couldn't resist.

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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:55 am
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

this is an old marwin guitar that i restored and added pickups to from the 40s

it was a mess and on that facebook page you can see the photos of the process. the sound board was refinished . loaded with scratches. and the neck which has no truss rod was warped. plays great now. i put in a blend control rather than a toggle switch for the two pickups. it was a fun project .

if you need stains to match your gutar check out stewatr mcdonald . that is where i got what i needed and they were a perfect match. . i touched u the back of the neck and body as well. perfect color blend..

click on next to see what i did in reverse.

as tothe fiddle well i bought one of those for 28 bucks with case and bow for my grandaughter afew years back and didnt know how to tune it either. type into your browser tuning a violin and you may find the site i found with a tuner which will play a tone for each string for you. i forget the site name but it is there somewhere.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:31 am
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amx05462 wrote:
as tothe fiddle well i bought one of those for 28 bucks with case and bow for my grandaughter afew years back and didnt know how to tune it either. type into your browser tuning a violin and you may find the site i found with a tuner which will play a tone for each string for you. i forget the site name but it is there somewhere.


It's easy. GDAE - you have those on a guitar too. Any guitar tuner will do for starters.
(Need a mnemonic? "G'day" or "Get Drunk At Eleven".)

If you want to get the purest sound, tune A to 442 (European concert pitch), and then a just fifth (3:2) up and down between each string pair. The slightly larger interval than tempered tuning gives a purer and more eerie sound, much like a blues harp versus a melodic harmonica.
If your ears aren't good enough, use a guitar tuner, but drop the G four cents, the D two cents, and raise the E two cents.

But for starters, the equal temperament tuning of a guitar tuner will do - your problem isn't going to be the exactness of the intonation :)


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:41 pm
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Thanks guys, some good tips there and food for thought re the violin.

Image

The parts should start arriving soon.

Meanwhile, I've re-blackened the fretboard on the Kay Arch-top, looks pretty good.

Image

It maybe needs a touch up, then a light coat of satin polyurethane.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:01 pm
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That's a nice looking Marvin amx. I tried to find an adjustable bridge like that, but all the ones I saw had an ebony saddle. I've got this set of (genuine bone) nut and saddle.
I've carved this crude bridge out of ebony which I can refine once I get the height and position correct.

ImageImage

Thanks for your advice and interest.
Goodonya ...Mark.


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:50 pm
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I sure like what I see! Are you going to do French lacquer on the guitar? It's a lot of work, but it'll look awesome...


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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:47 pm
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boxbang wrote:
The quality of some of the components suggest that it's a reasonably good instrument. The tuning pegs for instance are genuine ebony. To get it up and running, I've ordered the missing parts including a bow, to take the total cost up to $28 bucks.


Strings too? Where are you getting these parts, if you don't mind me asking?
And is there a song that mentions $3 fiddle?

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Post subject: Re: Three Dollar Fiddle
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:33 pm
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:lol: Yep, two sets of strings @ $1.89 each. No expense will be spared :wink:
All my violin parts are coming from the People's Republic.

I don't think there's a song, but there should be.
For the " Three Dollar Fiddle Blues " , maybe something like the acoustic version of Honky Tonk Woman.

Honestly, I'll be happy to get something vaguely resembling music out of the fiddle.
If I can get some sort of tone, I will find the notes.

I just noticed my rosin is rock hard. That can't be right, can it? Surely it should be sticky. This will really blow the budget.

Goodonya ...Mark.


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